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A Rebuttal to 'Why Does the Political Left Seem So Intent on Killing Public Education?'

Mr. Edward Willing wrote a well thought out response to my blog piece titled: Why the Political Right Seems so Intent on Ending Public Education? It is time to delve deeper into the issues.

Before getting into a deeper discussion of my original piece and the response to it, let me clarify a few positions.

First: One of the consensus values regarding education is that providing education to all will, in turn, provide opportunity to all. Extending the educational opportunity makes real the value of a society of equal opportunity.

Second: A literate society benefits society as a whole as well as the individual member.

Third: Becoming literate enhances the ability of each member to pursue personal opportunities and lift oneself up.

Fourth: The U.S. Constitution was written as a social contract document to limit powers of the government, while protecting the physical presence and rights of the minority.

In my original piece I used a historical analysis to support the claim that the early Puritans held literacy in high regard. Mr. Willing agreed to the importance of public education to this group. However, he misrepresents the Puritans as having come from the “Enlightenment, and had a profound respect for higher education." To be precise, the Period of the Enlightenment did not begin in Europe until around the 1650s ending around 1790 to 1800. To think that the Puritans were part of the Age of Reason is misleading. The emphasis that Puritans and other Congregationalists placed on literacy had begun as a response to monarchs and established religions attempting to limit access to newly translated and published bibles, as well as interpretation of said bibles. They choose to step outside of mainstream European society, as have many other outlier groups, the Puritans sought refuge from overly repressive regimes and societies, seeking sanctuary in North America. One of the latest groups to do so was the movement of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints from Nauvoo, Illinois to the Great Salt Lake Valley in 1847.

Although the basis for the Puritans and early Congregationalists was to create basic literacy for religious purposes, it established the value of literacy and became an important part of the American traditional values system, that all should become literate. Based on their mandate, they found the best means to accomplish such was through a public education system, supported entirely by the local community.

Universal literacy has become one of the most important reforms of the American Experience and set us in the position to lead by example for the rest of the world. However, contrasting the value of universal literacy was clearly not a value of the “Old South”. Mr. Willing criticizes my critique for the introduction of the “Old South’s” approach to education as a means to link the current conservative movement to that approach; whereas, the responsibility for education is placed on the individual and their family because of the important conservative value of personal responsibility. It is linked by the nature of the arguments offered by the current fiscal conservatives. The arguments being made now could just have easily been made in the latter half of the 19th century for those defending the old system. Although the system was forced out and a public education was imposed, it didn’t find the same support as in the North and West. Funding has always been a problem and the focus has always been to provide the mere minimum.

We have developed two traditions, one of universal literacy and the other of personal responsibility. The aspect of the “Old South” is that if we privatize the schools that it will soon become a reflection of the “Old South” tradition. The progrssive position is an argument against taking the risk of privatization and undoing all that has been accomplished toward the goal of universal literacy, which is of higher value.

Mr. Willing accuses me of “making presumptions without a case”. He is reading something into it that isn’t there. Education, like any other social institution, must change in form and structure to remain relevant. The centralization of education services was consistent with the idea of the Industrial Revolution and Age. From manufacturing experience it was learned that applying economies of scale would enhance the function of the institution. This had absolutely nothing to do with the content of education but only the form and function. The changes to content came about from a number of very basic variables. Greatest of all has been the ongoing commitment to equal opportunity.

There is an assumption made by many that there is only one type of morality and that is religious morality. Contrary to that assumption is that morality does exist outside of the religious framework. Since the public schools are forbidden to teach or reinforce religion, it is only logical and proper that they teach and reinforce secular and humanistic morality. Many of the moral principles are found in both secular and religious morality, but when the moral principle is strictly religious in nature; then it is forbidden. Let me give this example; orthodox Jewish women are commanded to dress modestly. If in a public school setting, all the female students are orthodox except for one, then to teach that the one student who doesn't conform is not just wrong, but unconstitutional. Same goes for children of parents who are not legally married, the school cannot promote legal marriage as a moral or disired principal, it is best left to personal choice outside of school.  Two of the landmark decisions by the U.S. Supreme Court were Engel v. Vitale in 1962 and Murray v. Curlett in 1963. These two rulings essentially establish the abolishment of school prayer and the reading of the bible as part of class instruction. Public schools have been very careful to maintain themselves as secular institutions.

Schools do teach and reinforce respect for the law, full literacy, access to higher education and diversity. Mr. Willing’s assertion, that the secularization of schools is somehow wrong, makes no sense with respect to the law. Mr. Willing creates a logical absurdity by claiming that we should have respect for the law but then we shouldn’t secularize, when the law clearly states secularization.

Why are the federal and state governments involved in education, when by tradition it has been a function of the local communities? Quite simply it is about equal opportunity to education. To provide an equal educational opportunity for someone who is attending a small rural school and for someone attending a large suburban school, the only way to assure equal opportunity is to “level the playing field” through monetary resources. The small rural school probably doesn’t have the tax base to support education in a manner that the suburban school does, which has a much larger tax base. Therefore, funds are collected and pooled at the federal and state levels and then redistributed.  This has been found to be the most efficient means and for many conservatives the most contentious.  We the citizens, through our government have the right to know what our tax money is being spent on, whether it is local, state or federal. This has led to the creation of a system of government bureaucracy that has grown around the oversight of the distributed funds. One of the greatest criticisms of handing out vouchers is that the public has no voice or oversight into the private school.

Mr. Willing’s inclusion of the example of the Communists is not only wrong but entirely misleading. In the first place he cites the 1940s as the period of the communist threat, but in fact communism in the United States was at its peak in the 1920s and 1930s. Many of the programs instituted by the “New Deal” effectively pulled the teeth out of the movement. To attempt to equate communism to the inclusion of state and federal governments into education is categorically incorrect.

Mr. Willing goes on to claim the Political Left is killing public education through fostering policies that don’t support economic success is, at best, a strange statement. Since when is education designed to support economic success? Education is designed for one mission and one mission only, to make people literate and capable of functioning in our society. As all institutions they are interrelated with other institutions, but to put on education as a means to economic success is inconsistent with the stated mission. Mr. Willing’s statement could be equated to religious policies that support economic success, since religious institutions are a major component of our society. I have also seen where he refers to education as an industry rather than an institution. This is mixing conceptual meaning that has no logical connection.

Mr. Willing goes on to attribute the current system of education to Horace Mann and John Dewey. Both were instrumental in creating a universal approach to education. Again, Mr. Willing gets his dates wrong and the periods the two men were influential. Horace Mann, who is attributed as the father of American education, lived and worked in the first half of the 19th century, while John Dewey was a major influence in the first half of the 20th century. His critique of the two was more like claiming they were devils incarnate. When, in fact, the two contributed mightily to the emergence of a great American Society. They put the foundation under the American system.

Mr. Willing continues to claim that the liberal left is committed to killing public education by continuing the protection and adjustment of the policies of the past. I really don’t know what evidence that he has to this statement, he certainly hasn’t produced it here. There is no doubt that the left wants to reform education and make it more in line with the today’s technological environment. One of the problems the left is concerned about is the reestablishment of sectarianism, religion and the loss of oversight in the public school systems. Schools are going through a great transitional period, trying to catch up with change in other parts of society and globalization. Much of the current system was designed to accommodate the Industrial Economy and not the Information Economy. However, teaching and teaching techniques remain at the forefront of bringing about universal literacy and preparation for life’s journey.

In my closing of the original piece Mr. Willing was perceptive of my use of a Selah to accommodate further thinking. To return to previous education models, such as privatized schools, will in fact devastate the general literacy of our nation. Rather than unifying the nation, which our current system has effectively accomplished, it will divide the nation. It will become a mark of our general decline as a civilized nation.

CowDung September 18, 2012 at 01:56 pm
If those are the details that you are hearing, then perhaps you just aren't making an honest attempt at listening...
C. Sanders September 18, 2012 at 01:58 pm
Heather deleted my remark yesterday that read: "Good God, bloviating has reached a new level". Apparently a little satire doesn't work here?
H.E. Pennypacker September 18, 2012 at 02:00 pm
Randall you seem to have a hard time with simple mathematics. Try multiplying something by zero and that is what you get if you don't produce anything.
Lyle Ruble September 18, 2012 at 02:01 pm
@oak creek resident....I don't catch your connection between knowledge testing and the inferiority of the liberal mind. It has been proven that some tests were biased in favor of white participants, but the majority of those have been modified to be valid over a wide range of cultural participants. It was the liberals who pushed for the reforms. Now I ask you, what is your plan for reforming public education? For a change, please be specific.
Randy1949 September 18, 2012 at 02:05 pm
My post was about why so many high school graduates can't seem to spell or punctuate properly -- many more than would have been the case in my generation. Many college graduates have the same problem too, judging by the what I see here on the Patch.
For the record, I do think that lower test standards for 'minorities' are condescending and demeaning. Although, have you ever taken an IQ test that is geared toward the cultural literacy of another group? It's an eye opener.
C. Sanders September 18, 2012 at 02:08 pm
@Phil ... oh, thanks for clarifying that those involved with the production, sale and distribution of goods and services which grow our economy [or keep it from further shrinking] DON'T "provide for the greater good of society"? Are you an entitled free thinker that proudly benefits from the sweat of others?
Lyle Ruble September 18, 2012 at 02:09 pm
@H.E. Pennypacker (a.k.a. ?).... I feel fortunate that I was able to work all the years that I did and now have time to enjoy the fruits of my labor. Did I say the world owed me? Your assumptions cut deeply into an already questionable credibility. Your attempts to insult me and others just prove how low some will go when they haven't anything constructive to add. You give all conservatives a bad name and misrepresent the conservative movement. Why don't you just admit that you're a right wing extremest?
Randy1949 September 18, 2012 at 02:14 pm
@Pennypacker -- So Mitt Romney 'produces' something when he puts his money to work and lives off the capital gains but I don't? And why do you hate poor Ann Romney so? All she ever produced was five boys.
Your set of values is worth as much as one to the tenth power.
Randy1949 September 18, 2012 at 02:26 pm
" Now I ask you, what is your plan for reforming public education? For a change, please be specific."
Hear, hear, Lyle! All I glean from the conservative commenters is to 'stop throwing money at the problem', which seems to mean give every child a voucher for the average cost spent on a pupil in the district and send them to 'competitive' private schools. This would actually work quite well for the average student. Where it falls apart is for the student with special needs -- blind, deaf, severely cognitively impaired -- whose education is much more costly than the voucher. A private school can say, "Sorry, we aren't equipped to meet you child's special requirements." They also have the option of expelling students with behavioral problems. So of course those schools will seem to excel in their average test scores. But where does that leave the others?
Randy1949 September 18, 2012 at 02:29 pm
@ C. Sanders -- I beg your pardon, but quite a few people get very rich organizing the sweat of others (to the tune of several million dollars of compensation per year) and doing very little sweating themselves.
CowDung September 18, 2012 at 02:38 pm
You have to provide a Jason-esque disclaimer in order to be allowed to do satire around here...
Lyle Ruble September 18, 2012 at 02:42 pm
@C. Sanders...In John Stewart Mill's work "Utilitarianism" he makes a cogent argument why the philosopher is entitled to what he gets from others. (1863,Mills, Utilitarianism Chapter 5).
Lyle Ruble September 18, 2012 at 03:14 pm
@C. Sanders...You certainly have a low opinion of people. To think that dependency is the primary motivator is wrong. Government's position is to create equal opportunity, not equal outcome. For those that are destitute or unable to meet their most basic needs; we; represented by our government, step in to assure survival. For example: how can a hungry child take advantage of the opportunity to learn.
Some of chose to take the opportunity of the Patch to raise public awareness and to challenge the vitriolic positions of the extremists of the right.
Phil Claiborne September 18, 2012 at 03:17 pm
@ C. Saunders...I didn't mentioned "DON'T" provide for the greater good, I wrote "provides more," as in working smarter, not harder, as long as the ratio of brains to backs remains few to many. (Now I've got to get back to my distribution work, ...ahem, I mean thinking.)
James R Hoffa September 18, 2012 at 04:40 pm
It's very humorous to come back after a short leave of absence and read the 'discussions' that have taken place in Hoffa's absence.
Seriously - thanks for the laughs everyone! First off - Hoffa is quite capable of speaking for himself and doesn't need Mr. Willing or Mr. Ruble attempting to adequately convey the sentiments of an entire ideological subset. As Lyle himself once commented, Hoffa has his own brand of propaganda and tends not to play well with others. Second, what both Mr. Willing and Mr. Ruble conveniently ignore is that no matter what model of mass education is followed, its success is wholly dependent upon a single factor - the willing participation of the student involved. In either case, we as a society can only provide the opportunity - it's up to the individual students to fully embrace and take advantage of the opportunities provided. Michael McClusky made a great comment over on Mr. Willing's response pertaining to aptitude and attitude. Hoffa believes that it goes without saying that attitude is more important than aptitude, as aptitude tends to naturally result from the proper attitude.
James R Hoffa September 18, 2012 at 04:41 pm
Thus, the question becomes who's responsible for adjusting and developing attitudes? While it may not necessarily be fair to charge the teacher with such a responsibility, educators that have taken it upon themselves to do so have met with great successes and immortal fame in the face of otherwise expected failure. Jaime Escalante (Stand and Deliver (1988)), Joe Louis Clark (Lean on Me (1989)), etc, just to name a few.
Interestingly enough, both Escalante and Clark frequently clashed with and stood firmly opposed to the dictatorial controls and influence that the teachers' unions unquestionably have on our public education system. No matter what answers to our problems with public education that we receive from the political left, there is a dominant and overriding theme - increased public funding via taxation. Lyle himself exemplifies this point, wherein he stated "[f]unding has always been a problem and the focus has always been to provide the mere minimum," and yet, he leaves his readers wondering what his basis for comparison is. It is a fact that the US spends more money for public education on a per student basis than any other industrialized nation in the world. And yet, we continue to experience lackluster and diminishing results.
James R Hoffa September 18, 2012 at 04:41 pm
If the rest of the world can achieve better results for less money, then clearly funding is not the problem that is keeping our system down, despite the unfounded assertions of Mr. Ruble. And people such as AWD are getting fed up with throwing away their hard earned and extracted under force of penalty/imprisonment money on a broken and ineffective system, and rightfully so.
The unions that have taken over our public schools are the biggest part of the problem. Because of the unions, men like Escalante and Clark are the rare exception to the rule as opposed to the standard, as they should be. By loading up local boards of education with sympathizers, that effectively control administrations, the unions effectively insulate teachers from the reality of the situation, and thus there is never any pressure or incentive for teachers to actively engage in proper attitude adjustment of the underachieving students. And in some cases, the union even opposes such efforts made by rogue and successful teachers like Escalante, as he personally accounts in his self-authored book. One thing that you definitely NEVER heard from Escalante, Clark, and the like were gripes about compensation, working overtime without additional pay, air conditioning, being evaluated based on student performance, etc - and yet these are the primary concerns of the Chicago teacher's union in their on-going strike/battle with the board of education and City.
James R Hoffa September 18, 2012 at 04:41 pm
Another problem is selecting teachers merely on the basis of the paper they hold and setting compensation accordingly. Effective teaching is much more an art as opposed to an objective science. You can have 10 doctorate degrees to your credit and still be a crappier teacher than a dedicated high school graduate with no formal higher education.
Teaching to the test is another problem. And yet, it is something that the lazy or inexperienced teachers attempt to do an a daily basis. Instead, teachers should teach for understanding, as effective test performance results from understanding. Yet another problem is standardized testing - but not so much the content of such tests, but rather the manner in which they're administered under the pressure of timed conditions. It also makes little sense to merely test for the regurgitation of useless memorized facts, unless the student plans on becoming a professional quiz show contestant, as opposed to testing for understanding of the material, as is exemplified in the Rodney Dangerfield comedy 'Back to School' (1986). An overly sensitive and 'pc' environment also contributes to the problem via unnecessary government regulation of public education, as many of Escalante's and Clark's methods would be considered inappropriate if not illegal today, despite the fact that they effectively produced the results that everyone desires.
James R Hoffa September 18, 2012 at 04:41 pm
While our problems may be many, they are definitely easily fixable and can be done within the existing framework and without the need to completely re-invent the wheel. If our public education system was truly 'all about the children,' as the political left and unions commonly claims, then we wouldn't have many of the problems that currently exit. No matter what system is used, so long as it stays true to such a credo, then it will undoubtedly be successful.
Randy1949 September 18, 2012 at 04:48 pm
Good to see you, Hoffa. A good teacher has the knack of correcting errors without completely demoralizing the student. S/he leads the student to knowledge and mastery of the subject without forcing it on them.
James R Hoffa September 18, 2012 at 05:10 pm
@Randy1949 -
Thanks for the welcome back! Sometimes force is required as the only and most effective way to get through to certain students. See: Class of 1984 (1982) Class of 1999 (1990) Class of 1999 II: The Substitute (1994) The Substitute (1996) The Substitute 2: School's Out (1998) The Substitute 3: Winner Takes All (1999) The Substitute 4: Failure Is Not An Option (2001)
Lyle Ruble September 18, 2012 at 05:28 pm
@JRH....Welcome back, I've missed your input. I agree that Escalante and Clark are both excellent examples of effective educators.
One issue I feel I need to clarify with you is that my comment concerning underfunding of education was a review of the approach that many 'Old South' states employed when forced to join the public school mandate. That tradition in many locations have persisted to this day. Wisconsin was never part of that movement and has always placed education first. I don't think we would be any more effective by throwing more money at the problem. The problem rests in the community and the group we are attempting to educate. Schools are required to educate in spite of all the social problems. Where we should be working is to solve the problems that interfere with the education process. In some instances maybe something like educational boot camps.
Bernard Forand September 18, 2012 at 06:46 pm
John Rawls once remarked; I would prefer to converse with an intelligent human being on their worst day than with a pig on its best day. I would rather converse with Socrates on his worse day than with a fool on his best day; As to the pig and the fool I will let them sort it out as they are more experienced in their abode of life.
With that said I will retire from this thread until some intelligence and or wisdom arrives. I’ll leave ya’ll to sort it out with redundant ignorance that is soooo boooooorrrrrriiiinnning…
M Ulander September 18, 2012 at 09:36 pm
I would like to refer you to the article in the New York Times,"How to Fix the Schools." http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/18/opinion/nocera-how-to-fix-the-schools.html?smid=fb-share The article references Marc Tucker, the founder of the National Center on Education and Economy. Mr. Tucker does research comparing education in the US and education in countries that are doing better at educating their students.
GearHead September 19, 2012 at 12:54 am
As a society, Randy, we increase competition in education by increasing school choice, paying excellent teachers more through merit, and firing the useless bottom-feeders in both the classroom and central office. Make teachers accountable and reward excellence. Nothing will change until society (you and me) rejects excuses.
James R Hoffa September 19, 2012 at 03:02 am
@Lyle -
Thanks for the welcome back! However, Hoffa will continue to be sporadic at best until the situation with his family emergency has normalized. "That tradition in many locations have persisted to this day." I'm curious as to the hard data on dollars spent per student in southern state school districts compared to their northern and southern counterparts. Is it really still as big of problem as you're claiming it is here? If the data does indeed back up your position, then the low spending in the south on public education is certainly being made up for by the overspending in the north and west, as our average as a nation is still far beyond every other industrialized nation on earth. And again, for spending the most money, we're still achieving mediocre results at best! "I don't think we would be any more effective by throwing more money at the problem." Hoffa is glad that we can at least agree that continuing to throw money at the problem will not improve or fix anything. "The problem rests in the community and the group we are attempting to educate. Where we should be working is to solve the problems that interfere with the education process." The problem with this is where do we draw the line pertaining to government intervention? Is the state (people) somehow responsible for bad or negligent parenting? What role should the state play to correct such a problem? Doesn't this detriment good parents while letting bad parents off the hook?
Lyle Ruble September 19, 2012 at 11:13 am
@JRH...I am sorry to hear that your family is dealing with an emergency, my thoughts are with you.
I think, that you are perceptive with your question concerning whether or not we, as a community, have the right to intervene in parenting and family structures. This is an area that we need to debate further.
oak creek resident September 19, 2012 at 11:45 am
It's a cowards way out, liberal coward that is. Because she cannot refute the facts. she claims "HATE SPEECH" and delete it off that basis. Cowards way out and it all comes back in the end.
oak creek resident September 19, 2012 at 11:48 am
@Lyle
It shows the inferior liberal mind in that it cannot connect A-B-C, it only sees one trend and immediately goes for the racism, sexist, etc cause. If there is an achievement gap in grade school, high school, ACT/SAT testing, why the hell would there NOT be on in workplace testing? Yet the liberal mind calls any gap racist. That, my friend, is the inferior liberal mind. I personally believe it to be a birth defect or some type of mental illness.
oak creek resident September 19, 2012 at 11:51 am
@Lyle
Yah the liberal "reform" was to dumb the testing down, or to make "F"s and "D"s acceptable grades, as what happened in some recent promotional PD testing in another city in order to allow blacks to advance. Your liberal reforms make the issue worse, and is the reason america is on such a steep decline. My reform is to kill liberal policy and do away with teacher's unions.

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Steve ® June 10, 2013 at 03:55 pm
So? What was used and what harm does it cause? Although ironic this may provide more good thanRead More harm. What is written on the application sign?
Cricket June 11, 2013 at 01:31 pm
The bluff and other areas need to be planted with things that will snuff out the weeds. They areRead More harmful to animals and possibly birds, of which there are many at atwater. Obviously not many animals but there are squirrels and rabbits and other native mammals. Not to mention the kids at the play area. Most adult humans can handle an occasional wiff of a pesticide but not children or animals. I have held several pesticide licenses in my day so I have had much course work on this. I am surprised the village has done this but I know restoration is about to begin - again - on the bluff and perhaps they are trying to rid the bluff of all the weeds. It is a shame that the 15+ kids they hire every year can't be up there weeding instead. I don't know what else they could be doing as the village has reduced the amount of annual flower beds that need to be maintained.
PaulRevere June 10, 2013 at 12:40 pm
The liberal minded Patch had it going their way for some time. Then, the contrary opinions became aRead More "voice to be heard". So, like all liberal media, just shut down the "free speech". Speech that educates the people is a NO-NO in the world of "public education". Have no fear, other avenues to educate the public is on the way.
CowDung June 10, 2013 at 12:53 pm
Given the amount of liberal propaganda that is posted around here, one does have to wonder if PatchRead More intended to make it more difficult to reply to comments (and set the record straight)...
Mike Stevens June 14, 2013 at 07:20 am
Wow, PaulRevere, AKA the hardest working person in America, who only takes 1 day per month off andRead More who believes all evil is related to public schooling, has time to not only comment on St. Louis area Patch sites, but on Milwaukee area sites as well? Paul, perhaps you should go back to school to check your grammar--other avenues to educate the public ARE on the way, not IS on the way. Oh, you must be too busy working 20 hours a day (but finding tons of time to comment on several Patch sites) to check grammar
Walker celebrates after defeating the liberal unionista blue fisters
Steve ® June 6, 2013 at 12:10 pm
Sure Keith. I am sure every time you use the term Tea Bagger it is not vulgar. The symbol for yourRead More failed recall movement was a Blue Fist. No one wants to be ruled by a fist and I don't see how that is vulgar when your own logo was a blue fist. Try again.
Keith Schmitz June 6, 2013 at 01:03 pm
Are you assuming we're stupid Steve? Don't. BTW -- you called yourselves Tea Baggers. We're onlyRead More using the term you selected. What a great PR roll-up for this group of Neanderthals. You're problem with that any fister reference is usually the speaker feels it is where his head should be.
Greg June 6, 2013 at 01:10 pm
OHHHHHHHHHHHHH, that is why their fists are blue, OUCH!
Bob McBride June 6, 2013 at 09:04 am
I think if you look at most of the sites still running the older version, you'll see the sameRead More messages of impending doom we got just before the change...
Bob McBride June 6, 2013 at 09:15 am
I got the name wrong, it was "Bellmore", not Belmont. It was part of rollout of what atRead More the time was being referred to as "Patch 2.0" in the press. It was rolled out to five towns in the Long Island, NY area in September of last year. I'm going to attempt to post a link to an article:: http://www.poynter.org/latest-news/mediawire/189296/aols-redesigned-patch-websites-make-a-play-for-neighborhood-groups/
CowDung June 6, 2013 at 09:30 am
"I think if you look at most of the sites still running the older version, you'll see the sameRead More messages of impending doom we got just before the change... " | I think that's true, Bob. I poked around at a number of Patch sites around the country and the 'Welcome to the New Patch' articles were full of the same complaints we are seeing here. | This Patch redesign seems to be the 'New Coke' of websites...
Greg June 4, 2013 at 03:38 pm
Starting at ONLY $70,000.00 Time to cash in your aluminum cans.
FailBoat
Nuitari June 3, 2013 at 08:37 pm
These posts are certainly more enlightening than Lyle Ruble's junk.
Steve ® June 3, 2013 at 11:00 pm
Racist
Steve ® June 2, 2013 at 11:38 pm
The main stream media says yes. So it's true.