I post on here my mostly liberal views (I am independent) however, I was for voter I.D. Maybe like Indiana if you provide things like utility bill statement that would suffice.

Great day for democracy. Sad day for fans of Jim Crow.

This law was a cheap attempt to suppress democratic voting and every one knows it.

Here's a hint. If you want to win elections, try putting out policies that benefit all of us an not a tiny minority made up of the rich. Wouldn't that be refreshing?

Cheer up. Some folks will be getting free BBQ, free cigarettes or an exciting Bingo prize and a piece of sheet cake - along with a guided tour of various polling places.

agree...

Personally, I can't wait until it's easier to buy a handgun than vote in an election. Then we'll be in right-wing utopia.

On a side note, how are all of you right-wingers posting during the work day? Do you all work for Scott Walker?

Does the left not feel bad for disenfranchsing their base? Why is it that that you cannot help people provide for themselves with basic identification? How about a get out the identification BBQ? How about cigs for identification? Try to help ensure that they receive ID cards for everyday use. Become a documented citizen.

Usually around election time the left will trump (sorry Donald) up racial,economical and far flung reasons why we do not not need voter ID. Why is this? How can so many groups complain about voter ID laws have funds to feed voters, educate voters, and transport voters to the polls, but do not budget anything to rectify ID problems?

My 86 year old mother will still be able to vote, along with many others like her. Cheaters? Show me ONE. You have been brainwashed into thinking the problems of the world will be solved if we can just get rid of cheaters. Wish life was that simple buddy...

So a senior in a nursing home who is a lifelong voter and hasn't had the need for an ID for years is now in your opinion stupid?

Stay classy Joe.

The senior could get a free ID!

Stay smart Steve!

Everybody is yelling fraud,but nobody is showing any actual casses of it!
How about citing some real casses!

what cheating? There has been no evidence at all of any major or even minor issues with our state before this law.

Hey GJD what time should I tell this senior you are going to show up to take them to get an ID, and will the DMV people actually tell them they can get it free or will Scott Walker Make them not say it is free?

Yeah, they can get a "free" ID as long as they can somehow get to a DMV, spend several hours in line, happen to have the "right" papers, and remember to specifically ask for the free ID so as not to be charged the default poll tax. You don't need to be an airline customer to vote. You don't have a Constitutional guarantee for access to airplanes or alcohol.

Bottom line - anyone interested in a strong democracy should be looking for ways to INCREASE voter participation, not ways to exclude 220,000 otherwise legal voters. Anyone who's mission it is to exclude legal voters, or to make it harder for people to exercise their voting rights, is hoping to gain by limiting democracy.

Any registered voter, including some who have voted at the same address for decades, who showed up with a picture ID that expired before November 10, 2010 was disenfranchised. This probably happened mostly with people who have stopped driving due to age or disability. Nobody has done anything, as far as I know, to make it easy for these people to get new state ID. How does a frail old lady who doesn't drive get to Mill Road to get an ID? How many hours would she have to sit there (or at any other DMV location) before she was waited on?

Keep on exercising your right to show off that stellar edumacation, chief!
Definition of "activist judge" - one who issues ruling I disagree with. Is it judicial activism to overturn 100 years of settled cases and several bi-partisan laws? (Citizens United). In both of the recent high profile Dane County court cases - the Act 10 injunction and the Voter ID injunction - the court acted on laws that specifically sought to remove or hinder existing rights.

Marialice - the shame is with the politicians who gave no thought whatsoever to the quarter million voters who would be disenfranchised by this law. The politicians who only grudgingly conceded to allowing free IDs to be issues, and then issued directives to DMV employees to NOT TELL PEOPLE that the ID is free if you ask. Shame is passing a law like this, and then closing DMV offices specifically in the areas where the highest number of voters without ID are located. Shame is doing all of this under the guise of stopping an imagined problem. Exactly how many cases of voter impersonation fraud have occurred in Wisconsin?

If you're for democracy, then the 1st step (as you say) should be working to increase voter participation across the board, NOT looking for ways to make voting harder.

So right Trish.....

like :)

I agree. . . .

What nonsense.

Would you kindly tell us (without the hysteria and the name calling, but rationally) how exactly one pulls off this voter fraud?

Other than the nonsense you are being fed by FOX, the GOP and right wing talk radio, have you ever thought through how this is done?

Keith:

How many times do we have to go through the scenario for you demonstrating how easy it is to commit voter fraud? If you keep ignoring the answer, stop asking the question.

@Schmitz -

I already explained to you the fraud that goes on in every college town in Wisconsin during every major election, as personally witnessed by yours truly. Are you calling me a liar?

and how many cheaters have you caught?
examples ....please!

Pretty much Hoffa. Wear it proudly.

It's much easier to suppress the vote than to commit voter impersonation fraud of anywhere near equal proportion. These laws are very simply about suppression. Nothing more. There is no systemic problem with voter fraud. Not even close. Can you cook up scenarios of how it might happen? Sure! I can give you a million and one ways in which murder is easy to commit. When I propose restrictions on guns to cut down on murder, you same people go through the roof with the EXACT OPPOSITE ARGUMENT to the one you're making now. You want to crack down on voter impersonation fraud - enforce the law. Don't take away Constitutional rights.

Actual proof of residence is really only required when registering at the polls, and official poll workers are taking the registration. When outside groups are doing their voter registration drives, who's to say if they actually check anyone's ID or proof of residence?

@CowDung, your just stated the cheating that can't be proven. And that would still be a problem with the new Voter ID. Anyone certified by a municipality were still able to go anywhere in the community to register new voters. So you go to a recall Walker event and set up a table and start registering voters. Though you sign the newly registered paper, swearing you saw their ID, there is no way to prove the person doing the registering actually looked at it. Even in the controlled setting of a polling place, who is ever going to know if I accepted a government issued ID. They would have to verify every new register. Voter ID would definitely cut down on hidden fraud but not eliminate it completely.

Where the voter ID helps is that these groups would no longer be able to register bunches of non-existent people and then have a few people vote under those names. Cheaters are unlikely to have a fake ID made for each fake name they put on the voter logs.

Some of you people should try actually researching voting laws before commenting on them. You have to prove both identity and address when you register. It's required whether you register at the polls, at City Hall, by mail or at Mayfair Mall. You can use a current license with a current address for both. If your address is not current, you have to show proof of address as well. It would difficult to pull off fraudulent registration. When they process new registrations, city clerks cross check names and ID numbers using DMV records or SSA records (for people who don't have licenses). If there's a discrepancy, they may send a card to the registrant's address advising him or her of the problem. City clerks also know all the addresses in their towns and cities. They can spot fake addresses. If there's no follow up from the registrant, the registration is tossed. Micky Mouse and Donald Duck registrations will get tossed, at some point.

Here are the regulations for registration: http://gab.wi.gov/elections-voting/voters/registration-voting

@Nancy, so you're saying that if someone certified to register voters sets up a table at a public event and starts registering voters, that every person that they register will be verified before they can vote? Will this same person or persons have a copy of the felons list with them, to verify that those they are registering are not on the list? So what if the individual they just got done registering proceeds to vote. Will their registration or vote be followed up on and scratched?

If that is the case how do situations like this happen?

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2000/12/10/loc_bronson_marlboros.html

Registrations done before an election are reviewed and validated by city employees before they're entered into the pre-printed poll books that poll workers use to verify the name and address you give them when you vote. City clerks do check the information against other data bases like DMV and SSA. If it's a bad registration, the voter's name won't be in the poll books. These people can still vote if they register at a polling place. When people register at a polling place, they have to prove identity and residence and their names and identifying information are checked against the felon list. People on the felon list aren't registered period. They can't vote. They won't be given a ballot. People who are not on the felon list, but can't prove identity and residence are given a provisional ballot, which is not run through the optical scanner. Provisional ballots are sealed in special envelopes and given to the city clerks. Provisional voters have a few days in which to provide the missing information. If they fail to provide the information, their ballots are discarded.

The "information" in the Enquirer article is absurd. It couldn't possibly be true. In hotly contested elections, there are usually poll watchers from both parties watching the action like hawks. These aren't poll workers...they're representatives of the political parties. Any poll worker telling people how to vote or handing out multiple ballots would be blown in, fired on the spot and probably prosecuted. If not reported by a poll watcher, this kind of behavior would be reported by a voter. Most people who take the time to show up at the polls and vote take the right to vote seriously and aren't likely to tolerate hijinks at a polling place.

The Milwaukee PD conducted an exhaustive investigation of voter fraud in Milwaukee. This was reported in the JS. They found some mistakes and handful of instance in which there might have been fraud. They didn't find people stuffing ballot boxes, as you believe happened at Marquette. I trust the MPD more than I do a bunch of frat boys trying to get their names in the paper.

You still need your license to drive, Steve, so I wouldn't be so quick to burn it.

Why? It's already on record that I have a drivers license and it is valid. Just like I am on record being a registered valid voter.

Go ahead and burn it.

Better make sure your tail lights work.

Won't be a problem. I can tell the officer my name and he has to take my word for it, dane county judges told him so. I'm registered with the state and in the "system"

There might be a point at which some people aren't smart enough to vote...or drive a car. Steve...the ruling halted the voter ID law, not the laws pertaining to operation of a motor vehicle.

Thank God we have a constitution to stop your line of thinking. Balance of power is a good thing. The abuse of power by the GOP has run against the power of the state judiciary.

http://political-heat.blogspot.com/2012/03/lacking-argument-walker-calls-judge.html?m=1
Monday, March 12, 2012
Lacking argument, Walker calls Judge Niess a "Dane County activist"

Governor fails to make feasible argument regarding content of judge's voter ID decision
...........

Utilizing stare decisis and a strict interpretation of Article III of the Constitution, Niess exemplifies arguments that are oftentimes made by conservative judges. But Walker's staff fails to point that out, or even argue against those interpretations, opting instead to question Niess's ideological preferences and geographical location.

That argument tends to stand on its head, however, when you take a look at another controversial judgment that Niess has made. In 2008, he upheld the Constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriages in Wisconsin (and relationships similar to them), despite the fact that amendments must pass one clause at a time (the ban included two separate clauses in one vote).

A Dane County judge who has previously ruled against a hard-line progressive standard is now somehow an "activist Dane County judge" simply because he rules against Scott Walker?
...

Really JB? Just about all of that cheating takes place in your imagination.

Seriously guy, you're not getting it at all. The logic goes this way:

Problem with voting fraud = tiny to nonexistent, never proven, just a conservative boogeyman

Potential to disenfranchise American citizens = small to moderately large. College students, the homeless, the poor, the elderly, the lazy, and people who habitually lose their wallets (or are mugged) could all be denied their rights as citizens.

In the face of this, how does the risk make any sense? It doesn't. It's a tactic to get conservatives riled up, and keep traditionally Democratic groups from voting. You, and the other spitey-righties on this board are looking like straight up dopes for buying into the hype.

@Taoist Crocodile .... dude really? "..... the lazy, and people who habitually lose their wallets (or are mugged) could all be denied their rights as citizens." LMAO you made my night... no need to watch The Comedy Channel tonight because that is the funniest thing I have ever heard. Yeah, that's why we should not have Voter ID.

@Taoist Crocodile I think we should just let you go vote for all of those lazy people by proxy... I'm sure you can find some justification for that in your little bubble that you live in.

Mike - yep, and I stand by it. Being lazy or forgetful doesn't disqualify you from voting (provided you can make it to the polling place). Just like being a gullible conservative dope doesn't disqualify you. It's a diverse nation, after all.

The thing is...the liberal argument is that people have the right to vote without restriction so any law that limits that right is a bad law. You probably wouldn't find a lot of liberals supporting voter ID laws under any circumstances. That would be the antithesis of liberal thinking.

The burden of proof is on those who claim that voter fraud is a problem. This has been investigated right here in the Milwaukee area and there was no proof that there's rampant voter fraud.

@Nancy -- I'm about as liberal as you can get, and I wouldn't say 'without restriction'. You have to be old enough, a citizen, and you have to live in the district in question to vote in local and regional elections.

You can prove all of these things though, without resorting to a picture ID, because we did it just fine in years past. A picture ID proves you are who you say you are -- the registered voter on the list at the polls. Why make people who already proved their age and citizenship years ago when they registered dig out a birth certificate again simply to be allowed to vote?

To Randy...the age and citizenship restrictions are in the Constitution. I think most liberals do accept the authority of the U.S. Constitution. I was referring to the additional restrictions.

So, following our State Constitution is a problem? They should have changed the constitution. Where was/is the laser focus on jobs???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzqlH60sSCI

@Steve Ebbie -

Could you point me to the section of the State Constitution that prohibits Voter ID please, as I can't seem to find it on my own.

Article 111 sec.1
Wood v Backer,38 wisw.71
Aug.1875 Wis. supreme court!

If you do that the DoJ will just target Wisconsin...

Bingo! Aside from the fact that voter ID is BS because there really is no fraud, the Walker administration and the GOP has made no effort to make this convenient.

If they really believed in this thing, they would have made if convenient.

Their motives are so transparent. Fraud has nothing to do with it because fraud does not exist.

A disproportionate number of the poor, the blind, the elderly, the homeless, not only don't have a driver's license ID but they have no vehicle nor means of transportation to get to a department of motor vehicle department office. If they are guilty of nothing and are a citizen of the US just like you, why do you want to make it more difficult than it already has been for them to vote. Put yourself in their shoes. Thank you for the civil tone of your question and for posting your comment.

How do they get to the polls?

Lot of free rides were available

http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/churches-offer-transportation-to-get-voter-id-132831563.html

http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/drivers/drivers/apply/idcard.htm

@Roy -

If those people can't get to the DMV, then I guess they can't get to a grocery store either, right? Does that mean that they all garden their own vegetables, grow their own fruit, and tend to and butcher their own stock? Sure sounds like those people must be more capable then you're giving them credit for if they can do all that on their own to survive without transportation!

James...groceries can be order by phone and delivered to your door!
How about the DMV comming over to give them an ID?

To Roy's comment...how do we know they are a citizen without proof? Like someone else above mentioned, if carpools can be arranged for these same people to be taken to the polls to vote, why not do the same to get FREE ID's? I know plenty of people in these situations listed who DO have id....they need it for several other reasons besides voting. I think these people are being used to push an agenda. I can see the point with the elderly or homeless but again, if carpools can be set up for votes, why not for this? I had to provide birth certificates for my kids just to play baseball in this town so why is providing proof of who you are a big deal for voting. There is more to this argument of not having voter ID I think, than is being put forth. The reasons given really do not hold up.

More BS from the right.

This was low turnout election. Only the hard core voters show up for these kind of elections.

@Schmitz -

What in the hell kind of argument is that?

I see you must not have had your coffee today, as you're running on empty with that kind of rational!

More BS from the left.......

How do you know there weren't any problems, even in a low turnout election?

@Nancy Hall -- Right. It was a limited election, but how many people decided it just wasn't worth it? Of course there weren't problems at the polls. People just satyed home.

There were problems at the polls, especially from those who didn't want or like to show ID. And Randy, I know better so don't pooh pah me.

@Mau -- Right, the only ones who had problems were the obstructionists who support voter fraud. Now I'm going to ask you to give me the break.

It was a minor local election. Low turnout. People who had just moved into the area had little interest in the results, unlike people who wanted to vote in something state or nationwide.

To some of us, who feel it is there civic duty and right to vote in all elections, this was not considered a "minor" local election. It may have seemed minor to some. But there were many who felt it was not minor. It was major in the fact that it was a test of the new Voter ID law.

@mau...what kinds of problems did you observe?

@Nancy, Without going into detail, angry voters intent on disrupting and sloppy paperwork that gets lost in the shuffle.

I had no problem. No one present had a problem. No one was talking about problems during the day (I went later).

@mau...What kind of sloppy paperwork getting lost in the shuffle? If you're going to make those kinds of allegations, you need to back them up. Who disrupted a polling place?

Just wondering what the stats are that you base your opinion on free loading liberals versus free loading conservatives.

erik1779, thank you for blowing this value-free comment through your bubble wand and sending it wafting into the clouds, where it will gradually descend to take its rightful place in that rose-tinted fantasy land that looks like ads from the 1950s.

Are you always this angry? Would you believe that many who improperly signed the recall petitions were people who support Walker and wanted to infect the petition drive. If you folks find it appropriate to punch some of the petitioner drive volunteers, it doesn't take too much imagination to see what else the Walker supporters are willing to do.

@Flash I was thinking the same thing... they dont feel they can get Obama reelected with Voter ID in place so they will try and push it out past November....

James...I don't recall if he said the china person voted,or tried to vote!

I took my grand son to the polls but he didn't vote!

You hit the nail on the head, great post.

How can you be so sure that there have "been very few fraud events"? Because that's what you've read or heard about? Is it not possible that only a fraction of fraud has been caught and reported? YES freedom is important! But we are only TRULY FREE as a people if we can all believe in our system and that at the polls the true voice of the people is heard!

JB, do an internet search regarding voter fraud. Bush admin spent 6 years looking hard. Miniscule. If you can't win with policy, decide who can't vote. Plain and simple.

Good point JB - both paranoid and illogical.

How exactly is it even possible to catch someone engaging in vote fraud?

Once a name is registered as a voter, how do they know that the person is alive or even real? Perhaps if they didn't allow partisan groups to register voters, I wouldn't be so paranoid about having non-existent people registered as voters...

I don't know why you think voter fraud is "paranoid and illlogical". These are the facts; all I am asked for at the polls is my name and address. I could easily posed as ANYONE in my voting district and cast a vote. Then return at another time when the polls have new folks working and do it again. Instead of name calling, perhaps YOU should use what little brains God gave you.

JB, just because you've got a great plan to commit voter fraud doesn't mean that the rest of us share your disdain for the electoral process.

@GPKWH -

You're dismissing voter fraud as being virtually non-existent while admitting to bringing a Chinese national to the polls???

Is it just me, or is there something grossly wrong with this picture???

@Taoist - I have no "distain" for the electorial process. What I want to see that we as Americans have a reason to believe that there is truth in the system. Personally, I don't trust that there is. It's just way too easy to cheat, as I have already explained - and that's just one way, there are many. Because I am smart enough to to figure out how to do it mean that I do? Absolutely not. I have never missed an election since I turned 18. Not one. Not a primary, not a local election. Not one. I take my right to vote very, very seriously but I believe that there is resonable doubt that our once revered system has grown tainted. The only reason I keep hearing from liberals is that a voter ID will disenfranchise some group. If that truly is your one and only bitch, then work with us to find a solution instead of being so quick to condem.

You gotta love the righties.

Abundant proof that man-made climate change is taking place. "Oh, we should;t rush to judgement. We need more study."

No proof that voter fraud is happening. "Is it not possible that only a fraction of fraud has been caught and reported?" LOL!!!!!

We can't help it JB that you don't believe in our system. Not all of us swallow GOP BS.

It is rather disgusting, that aside from Kathy Nicholass Wisconsin has one of the cleanest election systems in the world.

But because of your sweaty desperation to cheat your way to victory, you have make baseless accusations. Pitiful.

OK JB, here's another reason - what if your wallet is stolen the day before the election?

cricket... cricket...

"How exactly is it even possible to catch someone engaging in vote fraud?"

Come on dung, you're not that stupid.

The only way for someone to vote illegally is to claim someone else's identity. How many times have you heard of that happening?

Trust me. The MSM has been more than willing accomplices in ginning up the voter fraud hysteria and if turned out that one person showed up to find out that someone had taken their place it would have been splashed all over the print and broadcast media.

Got anyone dung? One person?

It is time we stop this nonsense now. There is no reason to inconvenience anyone from voting. This is stealing democracy, pure and simple.

A confident country ensures that everyone has a voice and everyone votes. A confident country, however is not run by the American conservative community, is bases policy on making things up.

@Taoist = that would be a problem with the current proposal, but there are other ways we could raise the bar some how in the voting process.

Keith:

"The only way for someone to vote illegally is to claim someone else's identity. How many times have you heard of that happening?"

Are you telling me that you never heard of identity theft, Keith?

"Trust me. The MSM has been more than willing accomplices in ginning up the voter fraud hysteria and if turned out that one person showed up to find out that someone had taken their place it would have been splashed all over the print and broadcast media."

Correct, but if the voter named in the registration is not a real person, then that would never be an issue. A fake person isn't going to complain that someone voted in their place.

JB - I think you meant to say "that would have been a problem with the terrible, unconstitutional law that was just blocked by the heroic and patriotic Dane County Circuit Judge Richard Niess." It's not a proposal, it's for real.

@Schmitz -

Are you honestly dismissing the existence of voter fraud in a thread started by someone who admits to bringing a Chinese national to the polls???

Wow, Jimmy Hoffa - you get today's award for most nosensical and reactionary post. What, are you afraid that the Chinese are going to realize how corrupt our campaign finance system is, and start dumping money into GOP super PACs?

Because, you know, they can. Due to some really stupid jurisprudence on the part of our favorite conservative SCOTUS voting block.

"Modern conservatives, making it easier for the Chinese to buy US elections, and harder for old ladies and college students to vote in them. Go GOP!"

What does the Citizens' United decision have to do with brining a Chinese national to the polls and voter fraud?

Ah, I see! This is one of those infamous liberal tactics, isn't it - I believe it's called 'shifting the subject.'

Nice try!

Jimmy, I'm pointing out the paranoid absurdity of your umbrage at the fact that a Chinese person went to a polling place. Do you really think she voted? You're just being willfully dense. OMG COMMUNISTS RUN FOR YOUR LIFE

@Taoist Crocodile -

Now I've got you screaming 'communist' like the Kennedy boys!

Not that I see how communism is at all relevant to bringing a Chinese national to the polls or voter fraud. I just thought it was ironic that someone would mention bringing a clearly ineligible elector to the polls in a thread discussing voter fraud. That would be like Hoffa claiming that he invited a bus full of out of state Koch Industries executives to our polls during an election just to observe the process. And had I posted such a statement here on Patch, you're telling me the lefty liberals wouldn't be all over such a post claiming some sort of wrong doing or evil intent.

Come on man, you really have to do better than that!

Jimmy Huffer - Okay, that's fine; as long as we're all clear that you're just wasting your time, and have nothing substantive to say. Feel free to snipe away, and keep bucking up the rest of the conservative dolts posting on this subject.

To those who think that you can vote and come back later when there are new poll workers and vote again...the pollworkers put your voter number in the book when you get your ballot. The fresh batch if pollworkers would know that you'd already voted.

Recalls are costing tens of millions.....

Simple solution Steve. Maybe the Three Stooges should not have been a big rush to shove things down our throats. Good example -- the mining bill.

14 months is a big rush?
We have a short legislation session so maybe that is what you are referring to?

Roy,

ABC/CBS/NBC/MSNBC/CNN has serious thought?

A recent study by the nonpartisan Brennan Center for Justice found just seven cases of voter fraud out of three million votes cast in Wisconsin during the 2004 election, a fraud rate of 0.0002 percent. All seven of these cases involved persons with felony convictions who weren’t eligible to vote after being released from prison. I personally do not think voter fraud is a rampant as some say.

The point is that we really don't know how rampant voter fraud actually is. Without voter ID laws, poll workers cannot ask anyone to prove their identity even if they suspect that they are not who they say they are.

We have partisan groups empowered to register voters--we need a safeguard to verify that the actual voters match the registrations.

Repeatedly pointing to the few people that get caught engaging in voter fraud and then claiming that ID laws wouldn't have prevented it is a false argument. The type of fraud that voter ID laws will protect against is nearly impossible to detect without voter ID laws--it's no wonder that nobody is being caught doing it.

No matter how many times somebody, like the Milwaukee Police Department, investigates voter fraud and finds little if any; the conspiracy theorists are never satisfied.

Flash, all of those things are privileges, not rights. My grandfather, father and uncles did not fight in the World Wars so you could buy cigarettes or go to the movies.

The severe penalties put in place to discourage voter fraud have worked.

Tell you what Steve. Don't make it so obvious that you are against voting fraud, but voting Democratic.

Nor did they fight in a war so you could makes repeated ignorant comments. They did not fight for you to screw the taxpayers either.
You constantly say there is no fraud, no fraud, no fraud- when YOU are a fraud, Keith!
Crooks should not be allowed to vote, people using fake names should not be allowed to vote. Keith should not be allowed to vote and he knows it, that is why he thows his half witted comments in.
Keep stirring the pot Keith.

Fake name? Where your full name?

@keith schmitz ..... are you really that stupid? he is referring to people voting using fake names..... lol. good to see your intelligence is really showing....

No Mike the Koch troll.

If you read Craig's post he talked about people using fake name, when he doesn't have the guts to use his full name.

Like you. When you make accusations on a post site and you hide your identity you are no better than a member of the Ku Klux Klan.

Mr Schmitz needs to read the Federalist Papers, I am sure that the gubmint school that taught him about finances and mathematics failed to teach him about our founding fathers and their belief in the sanctity of voting...yes Keith old boy, if one vote is stolen by you rat bastard Democrats, which you do in every election, the system is broken.

Educate yourself Keith. I see you didn't serve in the military, why doesnt that surprise me?

I show ID at the polls, Kieth. I don't use my real name here because of thiefs like you, I don't need your type coming to my house. You stole from the village- shame on you. If I let you know where I live- shame on me.

About fake names -- it's pretty easy to get a fake Wisconsin driver's license. Probably equally easy to get a fake photo ID. What has been made more difficult than necessary is doing it honestly.

@Keith Schmitz just a couple things.... again, you are 100% wrong with your assumption that Craig was referring to people using fake names while posting. He was referring to using fake names when voting. Second, I would never use my full name here specifically because of nut bags like you. I have children .... and I honestly do not trust people like you. Thirdly, bringing up the KKK... lol. I guess that answered my question about your intelligence.

It's Internet Security 101 not to use your full name online. You really never know what kind of attention you might be leading to your own front door. That said, the rest of us protect our online names and reputations carefully, so it's not like hiding behind Klan robes.

However, about voting with fake names, how did these non-existent people supposedly register? Not legally, obviously.

Thanks Randy. I know of someone in my town who posted on another site, and had traffic daily. They would post what he was wearing for the day, and what was in his garage sale. Some things just don't need that kind of attention. We also have to bear in mind there is a small segment of the population that is unstable- sometimes they are even the headlines in stories here on Patch.
Regarding the fake names for voting. If companies have issues with hiring illegal aliens, it is because there are ways to obtain fake ID. It isn't hard to find the name and SS# of someone dead, have utilities put in that name, etc. The voter ID law would have addressed that issue, but it was a hinderance for people like Randy's mom. It is the same old story - we hurt the good people with enacting rules to stop the bad.
I still support voter ID, though I hope issues like Randy's are corrected.
By the way: I had to show ID for medical care last week. Seems ID theft has taken on a new front. I believe medical care is a right?

@Craig -- How would Voter ID have prevented the problem of fake ID and identity theft? Easy enough to request the birth certificate of a dead person and get fake photo ID with that.

What we need is more comprehensive record keeping.

Randy: I don't know if you can obtain a birth certificate of a dead person, I would hope the death certificate is tied to the birth certificate somehow. It's a good question.
I agree with you on the recordkeeping.
If one dept of the Gvt. knew what the other was doing, things would operate much better. Those problems exist in the Corporate world also, though it seems they have a better handle on it.

@Craig, I do genealogy and it's possible to get certified and non-certified copies of birth, death and marriage records. There are years set for how long it has to be before the general public has access and when family members have access. I want to get my grandmother's sister's death certificate but Arizona law says you must be a direct line descendant (child, grandchild). I want to find out if a family member reported her death. My cousin in Europe got her certified baptism record for me (they didn't issue birth certificates in the late 1800's, and I will submit that and my lineage. I've done it before with success.

So the dead voter's could rise in Wisconsin.

mau...So a certified birth certificate is not stamped deceased?
Randy has a valid issue with his mother, and it seems the voter ID issue just makes it harder to cheat the system, but still possible for the 'wiley' crooks. The poor saps who are legitimate also have a harder time. Again, I support voter ID.
There has got to be a better way.

@Craig, the state does not cross reference.

Voter ID is a start. Thing is the voter still has to sign the book attesting to the fact they are who they profess to be. But if you have a crooked person registering people who aren't allowed to vote, then it will get through or even the person handing out the number for your ballot. What might help is to have the individual sign a pad hooked to a computer like stores use, so a signature can be verified. But who is going to look through all those books and compare signatures. And if poll workers get lazy or for whatever reason, don't follow the rules, then there will be fraud. When registering a new voter they are supposed to be checked in the felon book provided by the GAB. But there too, how current is the list. Some people automatically assume a young person or elderly couldn't possibly be a felon so don't bother to check. These examples mentioned are just so rare and can be worked around. But if the POTUS continues to put his nose into state's rights it will never get corrected.

Do you people really believe that voting procedures are that lax? Registration information is, in fact, cross checked with existing databases. Registrars don't just glance at your license, they enter your license number on the form and it's run against the DMV database.

Ineligible voter lists are updated with each election.

If poll workers "get lazy" they'll pay for it later. The number of votes cast (ie. the number on the counter on the machine) has to match the number of pink slips handed out which have to match the numbers in the book. In any case, there are always two pollworkers and two books. They enter the same information in each book. They have to match at the end of the day. That makes it harder for anyone to "get lazy."

Yes...it is theoretically possible that somebody could get a fake driver's license using fake birth records and then use it to vote, though I think people who do that kind of thing usually have something more lucrative than voter fraud in mind.

It's also theoretically possible that somebody could make a fake driver's license with a fake number but a real address and hack into the DMV database in order to insert the information so that it would all check out when he went to vote with his fake ID.

The question remains, however....why? That's a lot of time, trouble and expense for one fake vote.

15 states already have voter ID. Nationwide disenfranchisement? Got a Red song to sing?

Ima...those other states don't have the same language in their state constitions

Check out the proposed MN compromise. If you don't have a photo ID, we take your picture for free at the polls. If you are voting illegally, you get nabbed as felon and serve time. But, now the obstacle has been removed. Unfortunately, the GOP won't accept this in MN because it no longer presents a barrier to those who they prefer to disenfranchise. The truth exposed.

How does having one's picture taken enforce an identification requirement? Are they running the photos through face recognition software to verify that the people are voting only once?

Liberals are still waiting for you to explain why voter fraud is a problem, given that there's no evidence of it ever being widespread or significant. Isn't a "big government" solution to a nonexistent problem the kind of thing that usually gives a paranoid right-winger an embolism?

@Roy - This would be a viable alternative and it sounds like it is being supported already by the GOP. It sounds good on the surface, but I would want more detail as to what form of ID they would accept in order to take your picture on the spot. Also, I don''t see anyin information how those that were illegal would "get banbbed as a felon and serve time".

Some republicans are supporting it. I'm questioning if it will actually legitimatize fraudulent registrations by matching them up with pictures of a real person. Unless they run the photos through some sort of facial recognition software, it's going to be difficult to catch cheaters with the poll place photos. I think that a better compromise would be to require non-ID presenters to dip their thumb in ink.

While you're at it JB please explain the presence of unicorns. Same belief system.

I'd be willing to have my picture taken at the polls. Or at the time I register. Registered voters should receive a special photo ID for voting. At no cost.

I just don't want to have to prove my citizenship again after having voted legally for over forty years.

Throw Milwaukee county in with Dane county and you have my vote!

And the conservitives will rule the world!
Follow me to the cliff my little lemmings!

My vote (I'll willingly show my ID) goes for Superior. Bet there wouldn't be as many anti-Walker rallies. The fleabaggers could flee into Lake Superior.

What would you suggest stopthemadness, Alabama, or Mississippi?

Thurston, the right wing in this state loves the South so much that they want to bring it to us. Thanks to global warming killed my first damned fly this weekend.

@Mau -- Of course you'll happily show your ID, because I'm pretty sure you have one. But what about the future? Say, you lose your birth certificate in a fire. Your finances take a real turn for the worse. When it comes time to change from your driver's license to the state photo ID, it's no longer so easy for you to afford a copy of the birth certificate and the nearest DMV is an hour and a half away by bus. If there's even a bus still running.

Or say you find yourself having to move two weeks before an important election. It takes time for all the necessary documents that reflect your new address to arrive. Are you okay with not being able to vote for Governor or President?

And is it necessary to refer to people who disagree with you as fleabaggers?

@Randy, I am many other conservatives are referred to as Teabaggers all the time. I used to not like being refered to by that derogatory term but now I fluff it off. I don't belong to that movement but do agree with some but not all their stances. Fleabaggers refers to the turncoat senators who fled the state instead of doing their jobs. Again why do you single me out for my "deragatory" comments but not others.

I'm not going to lose my birth certificate. I have more than one copy kept in more than one place. I had to get mine replaced a few years ago because it was a mimeograph copy and was longer readable. It was no difficult task. I did it all by phone and USPS mail. Then it was about $7/copy but thanks to Doyle it is now $20/copy. I do Genealogy research and know very well you can get these certificates online or through a phone call. And I know any one of my reps would help me if needed.

My attitude is this, if it gets to a point where I am immobile or my mind is gone, I will not vote. I know a lot of seniors and juniors who haven't a clue of where their polititians stand on issues. And to encourage someone who can't remember something for ten minutes or ever, is terrable.I can see just by what is going on, my vote doesn't count. We had legitimate elections and they are attempting to overturn them. And we have a president who is acting like a king and overruling state's rights.

There might be a lot of errors in my writing but today I don't care.

@Mau -- Tea has less of a pejorative connotation than 'flea', which implies a lack of personal hygiene. 'Fleebagger', which refers to those who fled, might be more accurate.

Thanks to Doyle a birth certificate is $20 a copy? I beg your pardon, but shifting the costs to user fees keeps taxes lower. It's a trend.

As I said, you may have copies of your birth certificate and plan not to lose them, but that doesn't hold true for everyone, including many who thought it would never be an issue again, having already applied for Social Security, married years ago, and registered to vote even before that.

As for myself, I realistically expect to lose my eyesight before I lose my cognition. But that's beside the point. We can't have literacy or IQ tests as a condition for voting.

@Randy, fleas aren't indicative of lack of personal hygiene as much as being a pest or irritating. You're thinking of cockroaches or lice. Dogs can be clean as can be and infest your entire spotlessly clean house. Fleas were always used in years past especially in cartoons as being pests.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9b7PEj3fR0&feature=related

I totally disagree on the literacy and IQ. Those who are severely mentally disabled, for whatever reason, are being used as pawns.

Why are you such a moonhead

Then prove it or kindly shut up will ya.

@David Blake great response.... I will be waiting for more enlightening repsonses coming from you.

So in effect, Mike you have no proof and we should pass legislation based on BS. Right?

@keith.... you really are an idiot. what about that guy from riverwest who was given a slap on the wrist by da chislom for voting for his dead wife for obama because that is what she would have wanted. the only reason he was caught was one of the polling workers knew them......

So he was caught? Big deal. No proof that we can impede the right of 177,000 from voting.

The NAACP is a racist organization and a complete joke!

So it's OK to run to the UN when you don't like what's happening in places like Iraq and Afghanistan, but it's not OK when the Democratic process is being impeded in places like Wisconsin?

The UN is no better than the NAACP. Keep them out of our business. Who went to the UN asking for help in Iraq, Afghanistan or any place else?

@mau...Bush went to the UN Security Council to ask for approval to invade Iraq and didn't get it because there was no reason to invade Iraq. Afghanistan is a UN operation. The US is part of a UN peacekeeping operation in Afghanistan. The US got UN permission to escalate its involvement after 9/11 because bin Laden was supposed to be hiding there (probably was, actually, but he moved). The UN authorized Afghanistan because the legitimate Afghan government was being threatened by the Taliban rebels and asked for help.

I love this "The US is part of a UN peacekeeping operation in Afghanistan. The US got UN permission to escalate".

UN peacekeeping is an oxymoron. They should just call it what it is UN sponsored war. There are many Americans who do not agree with any president, democrat or republican, who goes to the UN for "permission". Especially when all the other member nations high tail it out of there when the going gets tough and leaves the US to foot the bills and sacrifice our soldiers. The Russians couldn't win in Afghanistan so the UN authorized the US to go in a fight a losing battle. Who determines what is and what is not a legitimate government. The UN?

@mau...you asked what the UN had to do with Iraq and Afghanistan and I told you. You don't seem to like my answer, but your disapproval does not alter the facts. I'm sure there are lots of Americans who don't like the idea of US involvement with the UN, but the Constitution does allow for treaties and it also states that treaties are the law of the land. Here's the text: "This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding."

@Lyle...I got a message that you'd added a comment to this thread and I saw the comment in my e-mail account, but not here in the blog. OK. Anyway...I don't disagree with your description of how Afghanistan escalated. It's hard to give a fair summary in just a few words. The UN still considers it to be an "assistance mission" and just voted to extend it for another year, so they're still in the thick of it as well.

You are talking about 2 different subjects, UN Peacekeeping missions vs UN Treaties. I am sure you know that all members of the UN are obligated to provide x amount of troops and x amount of dollars to the UN. It is a whole different thing with treaties. A treaty is sent to the Senate for ratification and that is usually where the hold-up is. The president can agree to a treaty but should send it to the Senate to ratify. I do believe that the president can go around the Senate but that is dangerous territory. Bill Clinton was famous for working around treaties with Executive Orders. That is how the our most important national treasures were designated World Heritage Sites under the jurisdiction of the UN.

The UN is a treaty organization. So is NATO. Treaty status is implicit in our membership. This is an enormously complex subject. However, it's my understanding that when our involvement in Korea was debated in the '50s, the fact that the Constitution accepts the authority of treaties was cited as among the reasons Truman used to authorize US participation in the UN military action in Korea. Since then, other presidents have followed Truman's example. That's why Bush went to the UN before he went to Congress when he wanted to invade Iraq.

The White House and Dane County, excluding the State Assembly, Governor's Mansion, and Supreme Court majority, are pretty much on the same page right now!

Obviously, since the Obama Administration put the Voter ID block on Texas it proves they believe they can't get elected the old-fashioned way...honestly, by American citizens and not illegal Hispanics or bused in transients. Oh, and you are right, Roy, I am angry and fed up with the shenanigans that we taxpayers are asked to shell out for because people who lost an election have proven to be nothing short of sore losers....Interesting how the backlash to an opinion other than liberal goes right into name calling and bashing or an implication we are being brainwashed by FOX, the most watched and listened to news source in the nation (FACT). My husband stopped to peacefully and respectfully ask some questions of a recall Walker petitioner; she swore at him and wouldn't answer a single question put to her in a civil manner. My personal belief is let the normal process of voting at the end of a term be the only recall available unless a felony was committed while in office.

@morninmist -

"Floating Toilet Bills" - And Pocan is one of your side's examples of a truly great and uniting legislator?

Walker and the Republicans - "Let's work together to move Wisconsin forward."

Pocan and Dems Response - "Floating Toilet Bills"

Yup, you guys just keep on trying to convince yourselves that it's Walker and the Republicans that are dividing the state.

Are you honestly that diluted?

Yeah, Knudson wants to bring the Poopatorium debate back. I bet that will create tons of jobs!

@morninmist -

Enjoy your false victories, because they won't last long!

We will not only win the battles, but also the war that your side has declared against us!

Wisconsin will speak and once again show you her true color - RED! And once again, you'll go back into perpetual hissy-fit mode.

BTW -

Referencing WEAC in your posts as a positive just shows your side's continued domination by a select special interests, doesn't it?

Oh James

There is only a war in your vile mind. No one I know has declared war nor do we want a war.
Peace.

@ Hoffa, So you the think the SOUTH Bend will rise again.... hahahahah Good one.

VOTER SUPPRESSION IS NOT NEAR AND DEAR TO ANYONE!-including reasonable Republicans.

PolitiScoop ‏ @PolitiScoop
Voter Suppression Law Ruled Unconstitutional #PS #recallwalker #Wiunion #Wirecall tinyurl.com/77cwlcn

http://www.politiscoop.com/us-politics/wisconsin-politics/800-voter-suppression-law-ruled-unconstitutional.html

@mourning missed ..... voter supression lol.... more lies on your part. what's wrong with one vote for one person? how many times did you vote last election?

@morninmist

would you consider slashing the tires of the other party on election day voter suppression?

@Flash -- But the birth certificate isn't free if you don't have one, if you were born out of state, if you live outside of Milwaukee county. The transportation to obtain the ID is not free unless you can find a charitable group willing to take you.

@Randy1949 -

The first birth certificate provided is free. Even if you need a replacement and qualify as being indigent or otherwise financially destitute, the fee is waived. So where's the hardship?

Transportation to the polls isn't free either, is it? Nor is the stamp used for postage when requesting an absentee ballot. And yet, I don't hear you calling any of that a poll tax.

JRH -- The polls are in your neighborhood. The DMV is not. In fact, if you live in some places, the DMV is a long way away.

@Randy1949 -

So, if they opened it up to include county courthouses that are equipped to process passports, would that satisfy you?

@JRH -- The courthouses would definitely help. That's actually where I obtained my first and only Wisconsin State ID, although I provided my own photo for it. Such trusting times!

What would be even better is if previous voter registration at the same polling place 'grandfathered' a person. Because people like me, and my mother, and old Mrs. Jackson down on 1st. Street living in the same house for fifty years, have already proved ourselves.

Where the increased security (as applies to actual US citizenship) should be is in the registration process.

@Bren -

Your definition of "voter fraud" has obviously been influenced by the Daily Kos if you honestly think that the Joel Kleefisch incident is representative of such!

Wake up and stop drinking the Kool-Aide!

Oh Jimmy... how is that not voter fraud? Because a Republican did it? Wake up and stop eating the paint chips.

@Taoist Crocodile -

Let's see, it might have something to do with the fact that Assembly voting is not actually an election and therefor does not fall under Wisconsin's electoral laws as well as the fact that the Assembly has it's own rules for conducting its internal votes and that the practice of voting for a member that is still within the defined space of the 'Chamber' but physically away from their voting terminal is considered permissible under the rules and is a practice that has been on-going for decades by members of both party persuasions.

Also, did the person Kleefisch vote for say anything about Kleefisch casting that vote contrary to their wishes? I don't think so!

You're really getting your rump handed to you today, aren't you?

Here's a little friendly advise - quit while you're already behind, otherwise you'll just end up sinking deeper!

And although I really like paint chips, you didn't leave me any ;-)

Huffa -

Ahh, ya got me. I was just piling on - but, typical of a brainwashed conservative, you pounce on my one mistake and claim victory. Let's see you respond to a substantive criticism about the voter ID bill itself; you haven't yet, and you're not expected to.

As for getting your rump handed to you, see my response to your fearful bleating about a Chinese exchange student being allowed to see a polling place. Fraud! Conspiracy!

@Taoist Crocodile -

"Let's see you respond to a substantive criticism about the voter ID bill itself; you haven't yet, and you're not expected to."

It's the same crapola arguments every single time a Voter ID story is posted on the Patch! There aren't any new revelations on this board that we haven't all already seen here on Patch a thousand times before in the past. Quite frankly, I've already put to bed all of the arguments against Voter ID numerous times now and don't feel that's it worthy of my time or the space on Patch to continue an already exhausted discussion.

But, if you really want to see my arguments in favor of the Voter ID legislation, just do a search of the Voter ID stories here on the Patch and I'm sure you'll find my accompanying comments well preserved in the archives.

Cheers!

Mr. Hoffa. How is multi-voting acceptable? But I'll reiterate my point. It just may be that the wrong fish gets caught on the voter ID bill. It's a consideration.

That's why I'll always support a measured approach. And I see no evidence that voter ID is rampant in our state, and that we need to spend $5-$6 million on this straw man.

@Bren -

Of course multiple voting is unacceptable under all circumstances!

While I agree that Voter ID doesn't completely solve the problem, it's definitely a good start and a positive move in the right direction. Next, we need a state wide database that cross-checks the registration roles for duplicates to eliminate the possibility of multiple voting or at the very least make it easier to prosecute those attempting to do it.

Back in college, I personally witnessed quite a few of my politically inclined dorm mates vote multiple times in the 2000 election. When I reported this activity to local law enforcement, their response was that they didn't have the resources to commit to investigating such a crime and weren't interested in looking into the matter further as a cross jurisdiction effort is a nightmare to coordinate, time consuming, and expensive.

@JRH... WI cross checks local voter registration roles;it will only allow you to be registered at one address. If you move to a new community, it should remove you from your previous location. It has been operational for more than four years. Here, you can look up where you are registered: https://vpa.wi.gov/VoterSearchScreen.aspx

@Flash... great post!

I think they're sending the message that voting is a fundamental right of citizenship, and shouldn't be subject to requirements unrelated to citizenship, either arbitrary or systematic. Duh.

It's really pretty clear - all Americans, whether housed, homeless, rich or poor, have the right to vote, and theres never been a convincing case made that the right needs to be abridged in this way.

@Lexi Noble -- Where do you shop that they require you to show a photo ID along with your credit card? Many of the places I frequent don't even require a signature for anything under $25 anymore. Most of the examples you cite are individual business policies rather than law.

I'd also like to point out that my elderly mother doesn't have to show an approved form of ID every time she receives a Social Security check. She proved what she needed to prove long ago when she got her card. Voting is an even more important right.

Randy:

I would have no issue with allowing voters who have actually proven their identity years ago to continue to vote. If you register at the polls or at the clerk's office a non-partisan government official is responsible for identity verification, and once identity is proven, it should be good forever. Unfortunately, the voter registration system that we have in Wisconsin allows voters to be registered by non-government (and potentially partisan) people. If we allow voter registrations to be taken by partisan groups, we need to put safeguards in place to verify the integrity of the process.

@CowDung -- Then amend the registration system, not the actual voting.

Just to show the absurdity -- my mother is relatively housebound and votes absentee. She's already registered in the precinct from a time when she was a little more mobile and had a driver's license. But now (at least we think now, it's hard to tell) she might be asked for a photo ID when she requests her absentee ballot by mail. I mean, she's not right there in front of them, so how does this prove anyhing? And will her rescinded driver's license be sufficient to prove her identity, or does she have to go through the horse manure of locating a birth certificate and going down to a DMV to have her photo taken again?

I really think a previous registration or an expired form of ID should prove the citizenship aspect.

I'd love to see the registration system changed, but do you really think the lefties are going to go for that? They'd bring out the same arguments about people being disenfranchised because groups like ACORN wouldn't be able to get them registered.

I see the main issue as being with the registration system. We need to have a way to verify that the registered 'voters' are real people, still residing at the registered address, not registered anywhere else, and still alive. Then the only way to cheat would be to vote in place of another legitimately registered voter.

How many months has this argument been going on and there are some commenting who have not as yet made sure their elderly parent, friend, neighbor, will be able to vote without problems. They could have had their ID issue all resolved by now and especially by the general election.

Me thinks these are intentional moves to make sure there are flaws in the process.

@Mau -- Methinks it's about people worrying about the other folks who don't have dedicated family to go to a lot of trouble for them. And the point is -- we shouldn't have to. Voting is a right that is supposed to be encouraged rather than be made deliberately difficult.

Depending on how a wording in the new law is interpreted, my mother should be okay to get her absentee ballot because she's 'confined' to a facility. She hasn't tried to get one yet, seeing as she didn't vote in the limited local elections.

Homeless people have to get an affadavit from and agency with whom they're working. You can't just walk into a polling place, say "I'm homeless," and vote.

The larger issue is that of placing requirements on the process that weren't included in the Constitution. If there was a law that guns law had to be tightened every time voting laws are tightened, we'd see a lot less clamoring for voter ID.

@Taoist Crocodile -

"Okay Lexi - what if you're mugged on your way to the polls? Does that mean that you shouldn't be able to participate in the most fundamental exercise of citizenship? The voter ID bill says no."

Actually, the Voter ID bill says that in such a scenario, I could cast a provisional ballot on election day, obtain a new ID several days later, and present that new ID to my local election official, and my vote would count just the same if I had been able to cast a regular ballot on election day.

And yes, the Voter ID bill has provisions for homeless people as well - look it up!

Man, you're making this way too easy!

Try again!

El Huffbo, glib and irrelevent as usual...

So now, in order to make your vote count, you have to acquire a new ID in one week. You may have to take off work in order to do this, as the DMV's hours aren't exactly convenient. Or, maybe you don't have a ride. The point is the same. Wisconsin needs to make sure that its laws allow citizens to vote. You've got this entirely backwards.

Of course, I don't blame you for spouting such tripe; it's your nature. You are, clearly, an uncritical puppet, and you toe the party line like a good little soldier.

So what if even a handful of people did it. Would not make that much of a difference. But you know what, they don't Hoff.

The Right wing is pretty good at this, whether it's WMD in Iraq or criminals everywhere to justify conceal and conceal. Your policies are not fact based, and so not to be taken seriously.

There's a big difference between writing a letter vouching for a homeless person and driving that person to a DMV office and sitting there for hours waiting for his turn to get photographed for an ID. These people who work at homeless shelters generally work with more than one person at a time, so who's going to be covering the caseload or running programs while one worker sits half a day in a DMV office waiting for the line to inch forward?

Bren, the Democratic Party is in multiple state pushing a Liberal agenda.
The National Education Association and their affiliates are in multiple state pushing agendas to benefit their members.
The League of Women Voters is in multiple states pushing their agenda.

So why have you targeted ALEC?
Because they don't push a Liberal agenda.

Whow.

Great post Mrs. Peel.

Thanks much.

Sarah ‏ @sjzep

RT @steelekelly: MJS: Wisconsin's decline in total jobs for 12 months was biggest in US, new data shows bit.ly/yL3tUU #RecallWalker

@ Hoffa... you challenge has been established. 100,000 around the Capital and then you will be showing support. You might all want to wear orange jumpsuits to show sympatico for the soon to be former governor.

@MrsPeel -

We actually plan to show our full support en mass force on election day at the polls, but thanks for the advice!

Mr. Hoffa, I'm bemused. Your interest in rallies seems rather new...?

Mrs. Peel, I've recommended to them that outdoor rallies will draw inevitable comparisons to the much larger recall protests. Alas my advice has been ignored...

@Thurston -

You've got that all wrong. We've been through this before. It's supposed to go: "Celebrating Walker is catching on and spreading like the Plague!!!!!!!!"

Please, try and get it right in the future!

@ Hoffa. LOL we agree. Walker is like the Plague... glad you finally came around Hoffa!

@Bob..... but that still doesn't take into account the lazy college students who get mugged and have their wallets stolen on the way to pick up their blind, elderly and homeless parents who need free transportation to pick up their free copy of their birth certificate to get their free voter ID.

I can't believe I missed that. College students - usually a half barrel fixes everything. Blind, elderly, homeless parents...hmmm...half barrel, again?

I think most of the people posting in this forum should take that course. It should include really weighty topics like how to check to see if someone who gave you his driver's license number when he registered to vote is really who he says he is.

The depths of ignorance, not to mention the lack of critical thinking skills, is staggering.

Nancy is quite arrogant in deeming that other posters are ignorant and lack critical thinking skills.

I think many of the people posting here are well informed and possessed of excellent critical thinking skills. I also think there are a handful who have both major gaps in their knowledge of the subject at hand and supreme confidence in their own ignorance. Posting the truth is not arrogant. What takes true arrogance is the posting of misinformation, again and again, in order to push an agenda.

What about the guy in Riverwest who voted for his dead wife in the 2008 election? He voted twice, once for himself and once for his dead wife. And Chilsom gave him a slap on the wrist and believed his story. I remember in 2004 seeing a Kerry supporter walking an elderly person into the polls.... taking the person to the booth... and pointing on the ballot where the person should vote. I know it was a Kerry supporter because she was wearing a Kerry button. What century do you live in that the League of Women Voters is relevant anyways? lol

@keith schmitz..... you were the one who asked for examples of voter fraud... what about the whole smokes for votes scandal or moore's son slashing tires to prevent voting? what about the franken election in mn? those are "so what's" too? how many do you need? and those are the few that got caught. if people with your mind set weren't influencing elections, if people like you were trustworthy, if people like you wouldn't condone fraud... then maybe we wouldn't need voter id.

These are just a handful of cases. Stop looking desperate Mike. There is no intellectual honesty behind voter ID.

Yes, there is only a handful of cases. Perhaps you should consider that since it is nearly impossible to catch someone voting under a false name/registration, we aren't going to see many cases of people being caught. Before voter ID, poll workers could not legally ask a voter to prove their identity, even if they suspected that they were not who they claimed.

As long as non-government groups are empowered to register voters, we need a safeguard to verify that the people voting are indeed the people who are registered. Voter ID is that safeguard.

http://www.jsonline.com/business/88705292.html

Read that Barb and it will all make sense. Remember what your grandmother told you, you are judged by the company you keep. It should be no surprise that Mr. Schmitz would side with voter fraud since he himself lacks morals.

You should have told all those protesters, and the media, that last winter.

It is just too time consuming keeping up with these comments. Especially when the link in the email notice doesn't take you directly to the comment. And it's the same yadda yadda yadda from both sides.

@Alfred Kell -- But Wisconsin's Voter ID law may go further than Indiana's as applies to the difficulty and expense of obtaining the approved form of ID. It may violate our state constitution, and it may violate the voting rights act by setting up a poll tax. The courts will have to decide this.

Ironically, I read a list of fairly reasonable Democratic amendments to the bill which were dismissed by the GOP dominated legislature. There would have made accommodations for people for whom obtaining the necessary documentation for a State Photo ID was difficult or impossible. Those amendments might have kept the Voter ID bill both constitutional and compliant with federal laws. Who knows?

Alfread - get your facts straight! The 2 cases are very different. The Indiana case decided that the Indiana law did not violate the US Constitution. The Wisconsin case is about violation of the Wisconsin Constitution. Nothing was decided for Wisconsin by SCOTUS

@XRIGHT -- I don't necessarily disagree with you. ID to prove you are the person you say you are is perfectly reasonable. It is when the state legislature goes further and makes a citizen prove yet again that he or she is not an illegal alien that we start to have trouble.

It's easy to insist that everyone has a driver's license or a state ID. But some people don't, and it's too obvious that some people are hoping to make it such a pain in the neck that a significant number of potential voters will give up and say, "Forget about it -- my vote isn't enough to count anyway."

At this point I think it's just because he's AWD.

@Bob -

It's not just AWD, as some of my comments were also deleted, as well as the picture that Steve attached to this article. However, all the left wing crap remains fully intact!

Seriously beginning to wonder what gives around here!

I have noticed this at other times too., in articles written by the same author as this.
Maybe Heather can explain?

It's only on articles by Heather Asiyanbi IME. Legislating from the bench and internet blogs lol.

Figures.

Usually Heather A is pretty good. My biggest problem in the past has been with the regional editor, Mark Maley.

It may also have something to do with the fact that Thurston Howell III was crying racism over pictures/comments that were clearly not racist. But why bow so easily to the race baiting opinions and demands of Thurston?

Wow! This is seriously one of the weakest judicial decisions I've ever read!

Basically, the analysis performed by Niess leads one to conclude that the Voter ID bill, in it's current approved form, could very well be made a condition to being able to register to vote within the confines of current constitutional requirements, but not a condition to participate in the actual act of casting a ballot. But honestly, with same day registration being allowed, what's the difference? If it's constitutional to require one to show such an ID in order to register to vote, then wouldn't it be just as reasonable to require that same person to once again produce such ID when voting? Where exactly would any hardship exist?

The reason all these liberal activist Dane County judges are ruling against the Voter ID requirement is because they know it will never stand up to appellate review scrutiny. If this is the best case they've got against the Voter ID legislation, then Voter ID is safe as it stands.

Van Hollen just needs to put the petal to the metal and start the fast-track appeal of these rulings!

@morninmist -

Yep, you can really count on the objectivity of an author that identifies the Voter ID law as " the voter disenfranchising law," to give you a fair and unbiased analysis.

Nothing but pure propaganda!

Try again.

I need a shower after clicking his links.

To imply that everyone who would be discouraged from voting is on some form of government assistance is insulting.

Not as insulting as stating minorities and seniors are unable to get an ID on their own.

As I understand the requirements, one does NOT need to show a photo ID. Other forms can to used to prove identity other than a photo ID.

This law will probably affect more seniors than anyone else. Some of the seniors in question were considerably younger and more functional when they started receiving SS and Medicare. You're not asked to keep proving who you are after you've started receiving benefits. Somebody who hasn't had a driver's license for a decade could be in good standing with the SSA and HCFA.

Divide and conquer.

@mau

Yup--you nailed the mentality of Walker and his TeaRepugs perfectly!

................

mau

6:14 pm on Tuesday, March 13, 2012

Divide and conquer.

@pissedoff founding father -

I'll bite!

OK, so if we essentially can't trust any human being to run our governments in our best interests, then what do you suggest?

Should we seek the employ of extra-terrestrials to run our governments for us?

You criticize without offering any cognizant solution, so what's your point other than we're all screwed no matter what we do?

@pissedoff founding father...As strange as this may seem to some, I have to agree with Hoffa. What do you suggest as an alternative?

The alternative is to have elections in which the only people who vote are those who are registered to vote --- once --- and can prove that they're not only registered, but also that they haven't already voted in a given election.

Another modification would be to do away with electronic voting machines such as the ones hacked into (and votes tampered with in an illegal, hyper-partisan act) by the AFL-CIO in November of 2010 in Nevada.

If we can't have elections in which your vote (or my vote) counts as much as anyone else's (and less than no one else's), and that are held in a way that exudes confidence among the public in the legitimacy of the outcome, then the concept of a democratic republic is dead anyway. Today's America is an oligarchy, not a republic, and the only way to fix it is to ensure that election results are valid. That starts with photo ID requirements and stiff penalties for anyone caught cheating the system.

Of course the politicians and their backers will try to steal elections when there is absolutely ZERO legal consequence for doing so. Their argument in favor of fraud is racist and insulting, and it's long-past time that such checks and balances were implemented in order to prove the validity of the outcome of any given election regardless of who wins or which party that person represents.

Founding Father, there will always be people whose thirst for money and power transcends concern for others.

I don't agree that our system is irretrievably broken, but it is going to take a lot of cooperation to get back into balance. Citizens United didn't help.

Patch is interesting because people of different viewpoints engage. There is a lot of resistance to opposing viewpoints, yes, but I also believe some information is instilled regardless.

I do believe in trickle-up politics!

@Peter, imagine how simple it will be to fix the numbers when we go to online, phone or cell phone voting.

@James, we both know the solution is Ron Paul or Rand Paul. And that will never happen while everybody is asleep.

@Lyle -

You better get used to saying that, because I have a feeling you're going to find yourself repeating that line quite often in the near future as I make a believer out of you yet :-)

@mau -

I welcome the day that the Paul Revolution takes hold!

@Peter Egan Jr....What lit you off on this one? This whole thing about voter ID is nothing but a trumped up issue. Politics aside, it's more important to allow people to exercise their right to vote and have a possible few slip through than making it too difficult to vote and a great many legitimate voters disenfranchised. I don't care whether Republicans or Democrats are benefited.

Peter, there were about 15 incidents of voter fraud in WI in 2008 out of approximately 3,000,000 votes cast and the violators caught and prosecuted. The voter ID bill, if law in 2008, wouldn't have stopped those few incidents from occurring. Speaking as a fiscal conservative, spending $5-$6,000,000 to enact a law that wouldn't even address the known (and few) issues of documented voter fraud, is foolish. Perhaps the voter ID bill would keep Joel Kleefisch from multi-voting? This issue is a straw man.

Joel Kleefisch is being brought up as an example of voter fraud. The only reason he has been singled out for this practice is because he is Rebecca Kleefisch' husband. If you would have seen the news, this is common practice in the legislature, and they even interviewed democrats who do the same thing. They all do it. It was our present Governor Walker, the one who is also being accused of being a criminal, who introduced legislation to stop this practice when he was in the legislature.

No one is a fiscal conservative who doesn't want to spend $5-6 million on voter ID but has no problem spending many more millions on the unnecessary recall. A recall to overthrow legitimate elections by the majority of the people.

@Bren -

I already put to bed once and for all your Joel Kleefisch argument above, so I really don't see why you're trying to reinvigorate that bs talking point again. If that's the best you got, then you're obviously desperately grasping at straws on this one!

@mau -

Bren is a conveniently selective fiscal conservative in that the only time he/she is fiscally conservative is when it works to advance a liberal Democratic agenda!

@James, Dennis Kornwolf was my idea of a fiscally conservative democrat. I always admired him.

@mau & JRH...Now, you both know I am a social democrat and fiscal conservative. My definition of a fiscal conservative is; I don't spend my money, because I'm tighter than a drum head", but to spend every other else's money first. ;-D

We didn't ever expect anything less of you Lyle! ;-)

@Bren

Nicely said.

..............

Bren

7:37 pm on Tuesday, March 13, 2012

Peter, there were about 15 incidents of voter fraud in WI in 2008 out of approximately 3,000,000 votes cast and the violators caught and prosecuted. The voter ID bill, if law in 2008, wouldn't have stopped those few incidents from occurring. Speaking as a fiscal conservative, spending $5-$6,000,000 to enact a law that wouldn't even address the known (and few) issues of documented voter fraud, is foolish. Perhaps the voter ID bill would keep Joel Kleefisch from multi-voting? This issue is a straw man.

Mr. Hoffa, the Joel Kleefisch issue has not been "put to bed." As a fiscal conservative, I'm not behind spending $5-$6 million for an ineffective voter fraud bill. Mostly it's ineffective because this is a straw man, but if we must have a voter fraud bill, let's go after the real fraud, since the current bill wouldn't have stopped the few actual incidents. Multi-voting is fraud.

If Democrats multi-vote they should be busted too. However. The voter fraud issue is a straw man.

Except that's not how it would have worked here. The non-driving elderly were asked to show up at a DMV office, with a copy of their birth certificates to prove they are citizens as well as who they say they are, and only then will they be given a photo ID. Their old drivers license (assuming they had one) wouldn't be enough.

I have a feeling I will be asked to show my birth certificate next time I renew my driver's license.

There's one flaw with your logic Lyle - a confirmation of Walker's legitimate victory could be achieved without the need for a recall at all.

Sorry, the recall is still an illogical extension of a select special interest's temper tantrum. Not to mention that in order to logically verify Walker's legitimate victory in 2010, all of the variables would have to be exactly the same as they were then as elections are little more than a reflection of the majority sentiment during the time that they're held, and that would most definitely not be the case in a recall election held today, would it be?

Nice try, but you can do better :-)

Mr. Hoffa, how do I know that someone didn't steal my identity and vote for Scott Walker in my name in 2010?

Seeing as your name is only registered in one location, and you did indeed cast a vote in 2010, isn't it safe to say that your name would have been checked off as having voted after you or the alleged vote stealer voted?

It is much more likely that cheaters voted under false names that have been registered as actual people...

@Lyle -

Agree that it will take more than Voter ID to eliminate the problem. Above, I also laid out my preference for a statewide elector database so that the individual precinct rolls can be cross-checked and verified to eliminate multiple voting and properly purged of the deceased and relocated.

@lyle... i agree with you. in this day and age, when computers are so integrated into our existence, it is a disgrace to show up on polling days with poll workings scanning printed copies of registration logs. dmv should be integrated with the elections department which should be integrated with the department of revenue.

Ok... this is a repeat(I posted it above)...as this whole comment chain is sooo long...

@JRH... WI cross checks local voter registration roles;it will only allow you to be registered at one address. If you move to a new community, it should remove you from your previous location. It has been operational for more than four years. Here, you can look up where you are registered: https://vpa.wi.gov/VoterSearchScreen.aspx

Great solution Lyle and certainly something that can be relatively easy in this day and age.

But let's not overlook the fact that getting people access to their vote is not on the minds of the GOP. They have long telegraphed their intention to limit access because they feel wide spread voting by certain groups in this society is not good for their prospects.

Jay:

OK, we have a safeguard that checks to see if the same voter is registered in multiple districts. What kind of checks are in place to verify that the registered voters are actually real people?

Let's also not overlook, that while there may be other methods such as the one Lyle suggests that could serve as an alternative, nobody is proposing an alternative. They're just fighting what's on the table now.

That's because for the Democrats, anything that tightens up the identification process at all doesn't serve their purposes.

@CD... We have no system in place to confirm that fictitious people are not on the voter roles. I'm good with more stringent voter ID. I would have modeled the WI law after one from another state, 29 others do have voter ID laws, rather than going through this shoving match
I don't remember what proof was required when I most recently(10+ years)last registered to vote. Funny, I do remember when I did it the first time, at 18, and just filled out the little card;absolutely no proof of any kind.

FYI:The WI voter database system is designed to delete deceased voters too.

Jay:

That's the type of registration I did during college--filled out a card, no proof of ID at all. Even when I moved to Shorewood (10 years ago) and registered at the polls, my wife and I were able to vouch for each other that we were who we claimed to be. The registration system is deeply flawed.

The "face" of voter fraud is Joel Kleefisch. Would the voter ID bill protect us from Joel? Sigh.

Amazing how a Jobs platform can incorporate Jim Crow, union busting, high school sex ed and taking regional transit out of the 21st Century. Sigh.

Haven't we been through the Joel Kleefish thing about a dozen times already? It's not at all the same issue we are talking about with voter ID...

How is what Joel Kleefisch did not voter fraud? He multi-voted. I hope we are not now qualifying voter fraud by type or partisanship.

Yes, he 'multi-voted', just like most other members of the state assembly/senate have done on occasion. I understand it is a rather common practice.

The difference is that the votes in the statehouse are not secret ballot. The person he voted in place of was likely aware of and likely supported the vote made by Kleefisch. The person he voted in place of was also a real person with the authority to cast a vote.

I'm not saying that what he did was right (it apparently is against the rules), just that it's disingenuous to point to his actions and claim that he's fraudulently stealing someone's vote and taking away their voice of democracy...

@CowDung, as it was explained by both Kleefisch and also a democrat who was interviewed, this is common practice. This happens where someone needs to leave the chamber, for whatever reason, and asks another lawmaker to vote for them. It is done by both sides. But some people here are trying to make it an issue because Kleefisch is a republican. And again I will repeat, Governor Walker introduced legislation to stop this practice when he was in the legislature. Seems to have been an issue for many years but neither party wanted to end this practice. How convenient someone happened to have a cell phone and coincidentally filmed only Kleefisch doing it.

Voters can't vouch for other voters any more.

The safeguard in place for insuring that registered voters are real people is that they have to prove address and ID when they register. If registrations are taken at places like malls and Summerfest, the registrations are reviewed by city employees who verify identity before they're included in the poll books. They'll take the driver's license number and check it against state databases. If the name and license number don't match, the registration is no good. That's one of the reasons there's a cutoff date for processing new registrations. It gives them time to do the verification.

You'd have to create a fake name and a fake DMV number and somehow get both into the DMV database in order to cast a fake vote. In order to get over on the city clerk, however, this fake person would have to make sure that his fake residence is a real place....and that would have to be in the DMV database, too. Voter ID really wouldn't stop somebody who's that determined because he could use his fake license to verify his false identity at the polls.

Nancy:

It is only under this latest law that they really have to prove address and ID when registering. How many fake registrations are already exist?

As far as the 'non-polling place' registrations, you really don't need a driver license number to register--the last 4 digits of a SS number can be used instead. Not nearly as foolproof for verification as the driver license number. No fake names are needed. As long as they have names that match up with those last 4 digits, and there is a Wisconsin address on the form, the registration will be considered to be valid.

Proof of identity and proof of address have been required for registration for at least a decade and probably longer. This law had to do with requiring ID to vote, not to register.

People who have driver's licenses are required to show them and the ID number is recorded on the form. Anyone with a DMV ID who lies and says they don't have one would probably be subject to prosecution. You're not allowed to lie when registering to vote. People who are not on record with the DMV can furnish the last four digits of their SSNs. These are checked against the SSA's data base and the name and numbers have to match. People who are registering also have to prove address.

So, somebody could assume the name and SSN of a dead person and then open up a WE energies account in the person's name at a real address, where WE Energies is not already providing service (because they won't open up an account for a fake address), at least 28 days before an election and then register to vote using the fake identity and fake WE account.

It seems unlikely that someone would go to all that trouble in order to cast a single vote, however. I think it's more likely that the number of fake registrations is pretty close to zero because the system is designed to prevent fraudulent registration. In any case, this has nothing to do with showing ID to vote.

Someone who went to the trouble of stealing someone's identity in order to register would probably have no trouble obtaining a fake photo ID.

@pissedoff founding father -

And merely getting rid of the electoral college system and party politics would accomplish these goals?

How?

I confess I'm interested in the idea of eliminating the electoral college and relying on the popular vote alone. I've always thought it a strange sort of beast.

@morninmist & Jay Sykes -

Either this system is severely flawed or it is run by a bunch of incompetent public sector union stooges, because I currently show up as being validly registered to voter in three different locales - 2 previous college addresses and my current address. Not to mention that I apparently was never purged from the system when I lived out-of-state for three years while attending law school. So, if I was a really motivated and deceitful person, I could effectively cast three votes for Walker in the upcoming recall election. And I guess that you guys would have no problem with this, because after all, we already have a system in place that prevents voter fraud and it works, right?

Try again.

Hey hoffa
I hope you making some calls to the appropriate people in charge rather than just posting (trying to score points) on a forum (if you are telling the truth to start with).

@morninmist -

I don't believe it's my statutory duty to call anyone. I'll only vote once, as Hoffa is an honest dude with integrity, unlike those on your side that are currently being prosecuted for fraud in connection with the recall petitions. When I reported multiple voting fraud that I personally witnessed while attending undergrad at UW-Whitewater, the response that I received from the authorities is that multi-jurisdiction investigations over such a trivial issue were a waste of their time, money, and effort. Therefore, I'm not going to waste anymore of my time on the issue with the authorities.

If you have a problem with it, be my guest and waste all the time you'd like - go nuts and have a party with drum banging and horn blowing for all I care!

I'm merely pointing out that your great infallible system isn't so perfect after all and that we need something better. Voter ID is a step in the right direction, but needs improvement as well.

Cheers!

@JRH... Ok, I just ran 53 people, that I know their birthday and address history for more than the last 20 years, through the voter database. Only one(1) came up with more than a single entry. In that, 1/53 case, the 'status box' & 'status reason' on one of the forms was 'active/registered' and on the other form it was listed as 'Inactive/Notice from Clerk';they were only able/allowed to vote at one location.

FYI: I think I made my original response to your post that we should have some type of system to cross-check;apparently you were not aware that this state voter database existed. I don't believe I said it shouldn't be better than it is;one must start somewhere.

Anyone else found any glaring errors??

@ HOFFA
I did not say it was a statutory duty--I meant more along the lines of being a good citizen. but you have proven my point. You would rather cry on a comment board than try to fix an error. sure, you tried once but that was a while ago.

And BTW--Walker's little baby-the voter ID law was NOT a step in the right direction. It was ruled unconstitutional. get with the program!!

..............
James R Hoffa

1:23 pm on Wednesday, March 14, 2012

@morninmist -

I don't believe it's my statutory duty to call anyone. I'll only vote once, as Hoffa is an honest dude with integrity, unlike those on your side that are currently being prosecuted for fraud in connection with the recall petitions. When I reported multiple voting fraud that I personally witnessed while attending undergrad at UW-Whitewater, the response that I received from the authorities is that multi-jurisdiction investigations over such a trivial issue were a waste of their time, money, and effort. Therefore, I'm not going to waste anymore of my time on the issue with the authorities.

If you have a problem with it, be my guest and waste all the time you'd like - go nuts and have a party with drum banging and horn blowing for all I care!

I'm merely pointing out that your great infallible system isn't so perfect after all and that we need something better. Voter ID is a step in the right direction, but needs improvement as well.

Cheers!

Interesting that despite information that has changed over time, that my name appears once, for my most recent address.

&Mau -- I don't see where it says a zombie will require a photo ID from me before it rips my neck open.

Yes, it's nice to have any kind of important paper with you in the event of an evacuation, but my son's recent house fire taught me that in a crisis, you get out first and worry about things like that later. In truth, how many victims of 9/11 were found with their wallets on them and identified that way?

It was my way of adding a bit of humor to this otherwise contentious blog. I give the CDC credit for putting humor into an otherwise mundane announcement. It definitely caught my attention and gave me a laugh.

Hmmm .... where's the 9MM with Zombie rounds

@C Sanders, Hornady makes the Zombie Match Ammunition called the Zombie Just In Case...Match. I won't provide any further details or links as we have some very sensitive bloggers here on the patch, who may be anti-gun, and feel offended.

It's probably a hollow-point bullet especially for exploding heads or ripping apart bodies efficiently, if I know my zombie literature. Whether it should be used on live human beings (or even sold) is another thing entirely.

Please.

A very rational point, JBN. What is the rush on this? It is a Constitutional issue; both state and federal.

Indiana's Voter ID law was settled as a US Consitutional issue and the SCOTUS decided in favor of the new state law.

At this point it appears that the issue in Wisconsin may be only a State Constitutional issue. The stay was issued based on precedent; It is not permanent, nor it is "legislation from the bench",by an "activist judge", which is the standard description used to describe a ruling by any judge that does not please TEAPublicans.

If the Voter ID law is a good, sound law, the courts will rule it to be the law. If it is flawed or does not fit within the confines as set out by Wisconsin's Constitution, it will be struck down.

That's kind of how the system of Checks and Balances was set up to work. What could be wrong with that?

MP:

I believe the legal argument in Wisconsin deals with the voting qualifications stated in the state Constitution. The state Constitution lists the requirements for voting. The voter ID law passed basically adds an additional requirement to the Constitutional list of requirements.

That is what is being challenged. You can't just legislate adon requirements to the Constitution. You can make changes to the constitution, but that requires passing the amendments in two consecutive legislation sessions and then having the voters vote on the amendment.

Apparently, the Republicans rammed this through without reading the Constitution. When it gets to the state Supreme Court, I'm sure the Republican judges will overturn the lower courts and the law will be in place.

It is interesting to read the comments here and see the lack of understanding of how the checks and balances work in our government.

How does creating additional requirements run afoul of the constitution?

Additional requirements for voting do not have to be part of the constitution--they aren't trying to create an amendment. Unless the law contradicts a requirement that is stated in the constitution, it should be allowed.

CD, we will see how the challenge works out in the court system. The Constitution says you have to be a citizen and can't be a felon. It doesn't say you have to show your ID. You don't have to have an ID to be a citizen of the state.

Are you opposed to the voter ID law being challenged in the court system? Is so why? What's the rush? Have we had elections in the state manipulated by fraudulent voting?

Did you know, with the voter ID law, felons with a valid ID can vote. Of course, it's a felony.

No, it doesn't say that one has to show an ID. It also doesn't say that having an ID requirement is prohibited.

The Wisconsin Voter ID law may well be unconstitutional at the federal level as well, since the requirement to submit a birth certificate (which casts the voter money even though the ID is free) may count as a poll tax. Only time and litigation will tell.

CD:
Interesting point -- the state Constitution doesn't say you have to have an ID to vote and it doesn't say they can't make you show an ID to vote. The is why we have a legal system to figure out what is constitutional. Wisconsin has four Republican SC judges and three Democratic SC judges. If I were a betting man -- and I am -- I would bet that the voter ID law gets upheld in the state SC.
If that happens, there will be a push to get it to the US SC. Considering the make of the USSC, that might not happen.

What would you rather have:
1. Additional laws, i.e., more gov't regualtions, that limits the rights of citizens so that 20 cases of voter fraud can be stopped of 2 million votes cast?
2. No additional laws and the chance that 20 cases of voter fraud might happen and hundreds of Wisconsin citizens don't get to vote because they were unable to get the proper documentation to prove they are citizens?

Keep in mind that all the Glenn Beckian conspiracy about ACORN and voter registration fraud does not equal people fraudulently voting in the elections. Also, don't forget that anything they show stories of ACORN on TV there are lots of minorities in the picture. That's a good way to get the suburbanites nervous about the hinted at race war that will surely come as Obama (a Black man) leads our country in communisim or socialism or whatever ism is necessary to get people on your partisan bandwagon.

The aspect of the voter ID laws that might be contrary to the US Constitution is the fact that ID might cost money. That violates the 24th Amendment prohibition of poll taxes. I believe the Wisconsin law is being challenged on grounds that it violates the Wisconsin Constitution, which states age and residency requirements and nothing else. The argument is that the Legislature does not have the authority to abridge the state Constitution.

Does anyone else think it's strangely ironic that people who seem to identify themselves as conservatives want to embellish both the WI and the US Constitutions with barriers to the process of voting?

MAU, if you are paying attention in the hate fest that is politics today, the two sides are always looking for something to leverage. There are a lot of trigger happy partisans looking to lynch the enemy.

I'm personally from the wait-n-see school of politcal outcomes. Nickolaus wasn't falsely accused in a court of law. She was tried in the stream of the partisan pissing match.

In the end, it appeared she was guilty of human error. It's not easy being a county clerk and dealing with the details of an election. The results on a recent audit found things run pretty well in her office:

http://www.jsonline.com/news/waukesha/this-time-waukesha-county-clerk-gets-some-compliments-u348uus-139778723.html

She is a Republican partisan and she is subject to the shoot-first-and-ask-questions later method of politics practiced by the Democrats...and the Republicans.

The problem revolves around the AP wanting to call the vote before the polls are closed. I believe that is what precipitated this whole thing. There is no way to accurately announce a winner of an election so early in the evening. It may take hours after the poll closes to count all the ballots. It's a team effort.

@Mau -- the polls had closed. The AP wanted to give the results around 10:00 in the evening, and Ms. Nickolaus left the City of Brookfield out of her total for Waukesha County, making it look like Kloppenburg had won by a narrow margin. The point is, she had the totals from each precinct already. She just made an error which wasn't discovered until the next day.

Well, the reign of the Fitz's will end soon I hope (Scotty will be voted out now that he has been recalled; Jeff is running for US Senate but I think Tammy or Tommy will beat him out. Which leaves Daddy Fitz. I do not know how long the appointment is slated for).

Dodge county is in Scooty Fitz's district if I am mistaken.

I think you meant Scott Fitzgerald, but otherwise, spot on.

I'm still curious as to how Ms. Galloway can "retire" after only one year in office. Is this a face-saving gesture or does a "retirement" allow her a nice pension for her proud work as an ALEC rubber-stamper?

Randy, it's an interesting state of affairs when a state government has three members of the same family drawing taxpayer-paid salary and benefits, and eventual pensions (which lower-paid teachers and other public employees are vilified for having). Let's not forget that Daddy Fitzgerald's new appointment gives him a triple-dip pension. Why don't we hear righteous "conservative" indignation about that? Have I missed something?

Bren an intdesting historical note:

Before the Democrats under Gov. Gaylord Nelson passed the legislation to allow for public unions (late 1950s), the moderate Republicans were in favor of allowing all public workers to former unions -- except police, firemen and state police. The reason opposing the police, etc. was they felt there could be some power and authority conflicts when it came to negotiations and a variety of public power issues.

It's unacceptable when the Fitzgerald's do it, but acceptable when the Kennedy's do it.

Yes, it should have stated Scott Fitz (not Jeff).

But Jeff Fitz is running for the US Senate and will not run for re-election in the Assembly.

...........
Randy1949

10:45 am on Saturday, March 17, 2012

I think you meant Scott Fitzgerald, but otherwise, spot on.

Back in the 1950s, Wisconsin had the Knowles brothers -- Warren and Bob -- in power positions. It seems like a silly argument about two brothers, be they named Kennedy or Fitzgerald.

Jim Bob, no argument, there really are 3 Fitzgeralds in the Wisconsin legislature right now. Daddy Stephen Fitzgerald was recently head of the State Patrol in 2011, as former Sheriff of Dodge County he was the least experienced/qualified of the finalists for the position.

I mentioned the Fitzgerald family because of Stephen's crony appointment (and pension triple-dip). I find it interesting.

Aren't all wars unnecessary, expending lives and treasure. To be more precise, these are not wars. They are military actions. Only Congress can declare a war. I believe a lot of the mickey mouse name calling has escalated since Michael New refused to wear the UN blue.

@mau...Most wars are unnecessary. I don't care if there was a formal declaration of war or not, Afghanistan and Iraq were clearly wars. Initially I could support the mission to go after Bin Laden and the Taliban, beyond that no. Iraq was completely unnecessary and a terrible waste. Much of what we are now experiencing in the Middle East can be laid right at the feet of the Neo-Cons and George W. pushing for an invasion of Iraq.

Lyle, Lyle, just can't let go of GW can you. Good thing he has big shoulders. Has there really been a good military excursion since WWII? There are wars in all those countries from the Black Sea and Caspian Sea to the Mediterranean Sea, through Republican and Democrat administrations, and it's all GW's fault.

No, Mau, only Iraq is GWB's fault. There were no weapons of mass destruction, and we ran up a lot of debt for an unnecessary war. We should have focused on Afghanistan and wrapped that war up quickly.

@Alfred...Yikes. Your take on history is beyond revisionist. Bush didn't put Hussein on trial. He was tried and executed by Iraqis. after that, Bush stuck around. Neither Iraq nor Afghanistan was a "winning war." Neither was won. Neither will ever be won. The best for which we can hope is that the Taliban doesn't completely take over when we leave Afghanistan.