@Nate...Union members had nothing to do with it. This is strictly local and grassroots. If you want to hold anyone responsible for having to vote again, hold Walker and Darling responsible.

Actually Nate, you get to use it twice. How cool is that? No need to thank us.

@Nate...The minority as you call them, were only a minority because of Walker's bate and switch prior to the election. He did not once mention publicly that he was planning on removing collective bargaining for public employees. Therefore, if he would have come out and stated his true intent, those moderate republicans and independents that voted for him would not have. I know from the republicans and independents I talked to after the "bomb" was dropped.

Nice Ben but I think this is intellectually a bit out of your league.

Yeah, but I bet he is one crackerjack golfer.

@Ben Hogan...The work I do would be a little hard to explain and I don't need to help "Klop" with finding votes since there already locked up. You seem to be a little irritated with something. Do you want to talk about it?

What kind of proof do you have?

@Warren...alien ballots? What conspiracy theory rock did you crawl out from under? With such a rich fantasy life, you ought to be working for Disney. Don't worry, you'll know for sure, since this recall election will be recounted too; with Darling asking for the recount.

Lie Al,
I live in Disneyland: we have you "Goofy" and Schmitz -" Dopey". How long before you wake up? I get a kick out of the likes of you that continually deny reality to make yourself feel good and to support your narcissistic personality disorder. As for proof Schmitz, it's on its way. Soon we will have required voter ID, you'll see the difference in election results. Not in your favor, by the way. Me worry - not on your life - a recount may be called for by Alberta Darling for exactly the reason I stated. NOW you are finally getting it.

Thanks for outing the real reason for voter ID Warren.

@Warren....Narcissistic Personality Disorder; are you using the DSM IV definition? Reality is a function of selective perception defined through the lens of our values and beliefs. One man's fantasy is another man's reality.

Voter IDs wouldn't be needed in the 8th Senate District. The 8th is made up of fairly small communities where most everyone knows each other. Most students eligible to vote will be out of college and university for the summer; therefore, there will not be a large student vote. Other than teachers and public employees, other unions are not represented in large numbers within the area.

What you have to worry about is older voters turning out who have made the connection between the Walker Agenda, the Ryan Agenda and the Darling Agenda to continually shift money away from the middle class to the wealthy. Do a little reading and research on mental health disorders and libertarianism.

yes, it is kind of scary when the people actually push back.

@Gordon E Lang...I can't support or vote for Darling, I care about others and not just the "monied few".

Do you have a reason why Gordon?

First off, I have chatted with Mr. Moore. He can be disassembled in about two minutes. He is a real empty suit and since the WJSs' editorial page is for propaganda, he has a job.

It is funny that it is Moore's friends who have been responsible for sending those jobs away. Why don't you direct your anger against those people. In fact it is odd that you never hear about T-Party protests on Wall Street. Maybe because the T-Party is run by Wall Street.

You would think he wouldn't want to step in it in this manner. Yeah, if we hadn't sent those jobs over seas maybe we wouldn't need so many government jobs to take up the slack.

@ Keith, the 'empty suit' at the WSJ cites a U 0f Washington study on the inflation adjusted cost and staffing levels in education(1970-2005), would you care to disassemble in about two minutes, the reasons why the spending and staffing has doubled per pupil, but the achievement stayed flat? Please cite other studies of private industry where we find this type of result acceptable and can remain competitive in a world economy.

@Jay Sykes...I looked at the background for the study and I want you to think in terms of independent variables that were not properly accounted for. First; what was the population at the beginning of the 35 year study. Second; what part has technology played in reducing the number of people working in the listed industries. Third; low skill and no skill manufacturing jobs have been off shored. Measures must be compared between worker productivity over the same period. Also, we have moved from a industrial/manufacturing economy to a service/information economy. Lots of problems with the U of Washington study and many things were taken out of context to support fallacious arguments by the right.

A lot gets heaped on the shoulders of schools. Looking at that time period, a lot has happened demographically and economically, including the stagnation of the middle class by Reagan policies.

All of us are guilty of taking one study and acting like we've won an argument. The only difference here is that we are not WSJ columnists. Like I said. Talked to Moore once and seen him a number of times on the TeeVee. He is intellectually light as a feather and fits in perfectly with any Murdock run organization.

Maybe more money isn't the answer. I know working with the American Society for Quality that there is a lot of research into how to make schools more efficient. However, the opinions of the sociopathic Grover Norquist to the contrary, starvation has never enabled anyone or any thing to work better.

Really Gordon. Germany not only has unions but unions members sit on company boards, and the country is doing quite fine. Paul Ryan is a screaming fraud. That I'll admit. He's a pretty boy with an ugly plan.

As Andy Feldman pointed out in the Journal Sunday, what ever a governor does will have little effect on jobs growth. As Walker's career in Milwaukee county proved, he's very good at having things fall apart.

And Jay. Did a little poking around and even though Moore is parroted amply by the right wing, there is no citation for this study -- anywhere. A link would be nice.

The idea that you can defund something and simply make it better is ludicrous.

By the way Gordon, Sandy (if she is the candidate) will be happy to have your vote.

I simply fail to see where Walker's government is going to lead to a better Wisconsin. I like to visit Mississippi, but wouldn't want it brought to me as Walker is trying to do.

@Gordon E Lang... To make the blanket statement that too much government and the unions are responsible for the job loses, not only illustrates your lack of knowledge but is an out right misrepresentation of the facts concerning general employment in the U.S. The responsibily for job loss is a direct result of business decisions made indpendent of the government or unions. The decision to move jobs offshore was prompted by five primary variables: 1. To take advantage of low and no skill labor. 2. To participate in emerging global markets. 3. To avoid increasingly stringent government regulations. 4. To take advantage of a lower cost skilled labor and professional labor force. And, 5. To take advantage of lower cost energy. Now, the question to you is where is too much government and the unions?

There has been a move toward establishing a plutocracy at the expense of ordinary people over the last few decades, aided and abetted by the Republicans., who are a wholly-owned subsidiary of the wealthy and privileged, The same wealthy few who people those boards, with their Ayn Rand views of society who both boost CEO pay and contribute heavily to the Republican party. Look at the contribution to Ryan's and Walker's campaigns, and even those of a clueless nobody like Alberta, and the truth is obvious to anyone who is willing to see.

OK, so I guess it's all due to the Vast Right Wing conspiracy...

@CowDung... "if it quacks like a duck, it walks like a duck and looks like a duck; it's a duck". However, Kit got something wrong; the conspiracy goes back at least four decades. Up until now; no one with more than average intelligence took the radical right seriously. The original right wingnut was Ayn Rand and look who worship her now; Scott Walker and Paul Ryan.

As my father in law always says; "follow the money". That will lead you right to the right wing plutocracy.

...if it doesn't lead you to the Union bosses first.

Those imaginary union bosses doing exactly what dung? What have they got to with the before mentioned plutocracy that the before mentioned puppets are supporting -- at our expense?

@Jon... Read the Mass. legislation. It only applies to removing health care from collective bargaining. Unlike Wisconsin they are not going to strip all the collective bargaining rights away from public employees.

Regardless, they are limiting their "rights." They no longer can enjoy extremely unrealistic healthcare premiums at the expense of the taxpayers...it will save Mass. 100 MILLION...Even Democrats realize it's about saving money...nothing ideological. Richard Trumka (AFL-CIO) pres. must be going crazy!!!

Thanks ever so much for elevating the level of dialogue Gordon.

@Gordon E Lang... Only one problem; the private sector is not creating jobs. It is said that business is sitting on $1.5 trillion in cash, yet jobs aren't being created. What are they waiting for?
If you are so naive to think that businesses of any consequence are coming to Wisconsin, then your drinking the Walker/Kleefish cool-aid. Businesses need to be created locally, not hijacked from some other place. If they are willing to move here on a whim, they will leave just as quickly as they came.
If the state is serious about supporting small businesses and jobs, then guarantee capital loans to business entrepreneurs who create new business.

But my comment was "Since when does our government and/or unions determine what people in ANOTHER country get paid for their labor?" I understand your point. But I was commenting to your comment that Lyle's points are due to gov/union influences. I see Lyle's comments as relating to low labor cost abroad, not high labor cost here. But high labor cost here does not necessarily cause one to seek cheap labor abroad. In fact, one could argue that higher labor cost here leads to a competitive labor market that improves labor quality making it less attractive to look for labor abroad.

Boy, if there these tremendous union/government influences in this country why are corporate executives getting paid so damned much compared to the rest of the country, who are seeing their pay shrink. Looks like those influences aren't working all that well are they Gordon?