Hoffa, the U.S. Army psycological unit is not a treatment center. They develop theory and tatctics to combat the enemy via various propaganda methods.

Nobody is condoning what this man did - but once again we see the band rolled out and a special vitriolic hatred spewed out at him. You are engaging in all sorts of wild theories and conjectures... Was the man of low intelligence as you claim - perhaps.

Why then are these murderers treated different ?

"54-year-old Marvin Wilson is scheduled to die by lethal injection on Tuesday in Texas, even though extensive testing by a neuropsychologist has found that he reads and writes at the level of a 7-year-old and has an IQ of 61. He failed the seventh grade, was socially promoted through the eighth and ninth grades and dropped out of school in the tenth; he reportedly sucked his thumb into adulthood and was unable to operate toys such as tops and marbles, writes Danielle Citron on Concurring Opinions. A Beaumont, Texas, jury sentenced Wilson to death in 1998 for the 1992 murder of Jerry Williams after an alleged fight at a gas station.'

http://www.care2.com/causes/texas-will-execute-inmate-with-iq-61-on-tuesday.html#ixzz22lKGo22O

"Mildly mentally retarded individuals like Warren Hill frequently defy the stereotypical image we often have of persons with the disability in part because they tend to make efforts to hide the symptoms," wrote Hill's attorney, Brian Kammer. He said if a defendant can prove retardation beyond a reasonable doubt, then he is likely so severely retarded that if he went to trial the death penalty would not be an option. "He may even be found incompetent to stand trial."

http://www.ajc.com/news/murderer-hill-awaits-appeals-1482629.html

Evil people come in all colors, flavors and varieties, but there is a HATE amongst a certain class which is harmful to Society that is expressed when the killer is a white male. You people need to look inside - at your internal motivations - because you are burning inside with a sickness.

Have you ever listened to some of these white nationalists, Dave? They're pretty knowledgeable about the folks they hate. They may not be rocket scientists, but folks as clueless as you suggest usually don't even have the wherewithal to negotiate a night out at the bars successfully, much less put together something like this.

Here's my very amateurish take on it:

40 years old. His skinhead band didn't make it. He got dumped by his girlfriend (supposedly). Don't know what his employment situation is, but it doesn't appear his living situation was too stable. Maybe, at 40, he's coming to grips with his life not turning out as he envisioned it and he decides to go out in a blaze of glory.

The Islamic Center of Milwaukee isn't that far away from Cudahy. A guy that wrapped up in hate no doubt knows where that's at - why didn't he go there? Maybe because he figures he'd have better chance of doing more damage at the Sikh Temple and, frankly, to him they are all the same because they're not white? Maybe they look like the folks at the gas station where he's paying nearly 4 bucks a gallon?

Maybe that's all it takes. Hate. Both of others and of self. And a willingness to act upon that hate.

McBride - Don't forget the stop at the local gun shop for killing supplies. It will also be interesting to see what station his car radio was tuned to, if they ever divulge that. And did he have a computer and what his browsing history was.

I'm sure they're all over all of that, Dirk.

What are we to make of it if it turns out he a was a closet NPR listener and frequenter of the DailyKos. That he could no longer live with his inner conflicts?

@Dirk -

And the inferences that you made in your above comment say a lot about you, don't they?

Why is McBride's reaction scary? He merely poses a highly possible scenario to your really idiotic rhetorical question.

You're just dying to blame a mass shooting on a Tea Partier or Rush Limbaugh listener, aren't you?

Way to perpetuate the hate Dirk!

Hoffa - If you are serious that it is highly possible that the killer was an NPR listener, and was conflicted in being both a Nazi white supremicist band guitarist and an NPR fan, you really do have a bizarro imagination. Frankly, these statements of yours seem delusional and desperate. Would be a good Twilight Zone plot though. Do the Twilight Zone theme as you read Hoffa's outlandish comments on Patch.. .dee-dee-dee-doo, dee-dee-dee-doo.

@Dirk -

A reliable inside source told Hoffa that Page was a HUGE fan of Ed Schultz!

A few years ago there was a young man living at his grandmother's house near us. The house was raided and he was sent to prison on a weapon's violation. He was a professed neo-nazi. And he had a Jewish heritage.

@mau...What does it mean that your neighbors son who was a neo-Nazi have to do with his "Jewish heritage"? I don't get the connection and relevance to the thread.

@Lyle, Dirk's comment to JRH "Hoffa - If you are serious that it is highly possible that the killer was an NPR listener, and was conflicted in being both a Nazi white supremicist band guitarist and an NPR fan, you really do have a bizarro imagination."

And my follow-up that I know of a Neo-Nazi who had a Jewish heritage. Could a White Supremest being an NPR fan being conflicted be that impossible?

oak creek, precisely how many hours have you invested studying the Occupy Movement? I have spent at least 24-30 hours studying livestream footage of Occupy marches, including police actions. I've studied the structure across cities and regions. What they are not are "shooters." Their unwritten mission is to show the 1% what the 99% look like, "We are the 99%!" "This is what Democracy looks like," etc., emotionally and physically. The marchers are of every age and background. People who have been foreclosed upon who can't track down who to negotiate with, students crippled with loan debt who can't find a job in the recession, outsourced executives, military veterans of multiple wars, nurses, doctors, housewives, retirees.

Occupy, like other peaceful movements, has been plagued by black bloc anarchists (remember the London riots). They infiltrate a march, instigate an incident with police, then escape. They are known for wearing black hoodies pulled over their faces.

So oak creek, please don't compare Occupy to anarchists, it's simply not true.

@Bren -

"Occupy, like other peaceful movements, has been plagued by black bloc anarchists (remember the London riots)."

Funny, the Tea Party is a "peaceful movement," and Hoffa has personally been to several of their events, and not once did Hoffa ever see a "black bloc anarchist" or anyone "wearing black hoodies pulled over their faces."

So, what is the Tea Party doing right that Occupy obviously isn't doing if they're allowing themselves to be "infiltrate[d]" by these "anarchists?"

Mr. Hoffa, I do recall a smart girl phase when you proudly announced attendance at at least one Tea/GOP rally. ; )

The reason why you didn't see any black block at a Tea/GOP rally is that there aren't enough people in attendance at these things to provide crowd cover for infiltration! ; )

@Bren -

"smart girl phase" ??? Could you help Hoffa out a little here?

http://voices.yahoo.com/glenn-beck-draws-estimated-500000-people-restoring-6693902.html

Half a million people isn't cover enough?

Care to try again Bren?

OK, Glenn Beck drawing 500,000 people is just plain scary. Who needs black bloc? ; )

Mr. Hoffa, I seem to recall the confluence of your interest in making personal appearances at rallies with a certain Smart Girl Politics blogger's sudden and mercifully short tenure as a Patch poster...

@Bren -

Interesting that you mention that confluence, however, Hoffa never once made any appearances at any political rallies together with the individual you're referencing!

As Lyle once stated, Hoffa follows his own rhetoric and tends not to play well with others ;-)

Let's leave it at that please!

Maybe they all wear tighty whities, too. What could we learn from that?

Frances - Well stated. Truth and facts should be our common quest to find patterns to reduce such future murderous outrages. Some fear there is a pattern that will emerge that will lead to an adverse view of their political positions.
A characteristic of those with such fears is the attempted suppression of unfavorable evidence.

mau, these assumptions are simply too generalized. For example, you discount the effect of low dopamine activity which studies show is linked to addictive behavior. Dopamine controls the body's pleasure/reward centers, in addition to the ability to perceive/attain rewarding goals. As fast food becomes an integral component of youth diets, the foods that protect and make dopamine (fruits, vegetables, whole grains, i.e., not fast food), moodiness and depression incidents occur and increase. The effect on an already unstable individual could be disastrous.

In listening to rap music, which has a high listenership among white suburban teens, one encounters the usual teenage anthems against authority but more disturbingly, some disrespect toward girls/women. In my experience, sexism outweighs racism 2:1 in this genre. Certainly other music genres (rock in particular) explores similar topics.

@mau -

Hoffa is seriously beginning to wonder if both Holmes and Page aren't CIA MK-Ultra experiments gone bad, as both are linked to government funded psychological programs.

@JRH, you could say this about many such shootings. The other common denominator among many of these tragedies is psychiatric and drug treatment of the purp.

I have listened to and watched all sorts of music, videos, music, etc. and never felt compelled to hate or act violently. I have never gotten into an argument and reached for a gun or knife or used my hand to physically hurt someone.

Another cautionary tale about the dangers of skimming, Mr. Hoffa. My quick "skim" of Wikipedia on MK Ultra reveals that this program was discontinued in 1973. Page would have been a toddler, Holmes was born around 1988.

@Bren -

MK-Ultra is still very much alive today. If the CIA shut down the program in '73, as you believe/claim, then why did every President since then up through Reagan issue an executive order terminating the program? Wouldn't the first one have been enough?

The only solid connection that I see between Holmes and Page is that both were subject to government funded and operated psychological programs - Holmes at the University and Page in the army at Fort Bragg. Coincidence?

Hoffa doesn't trust the CIA or NSA for squat. They're very rogue agencies of our executive branch and have historically acted as if the law doesn't pertain to them or their actions.

According to all the news reports Page was in the military from 1992-1998 specializing in psychological warfare. Where better to learn the techniques than at Ruby Ridge in 1992 when the military used psychological warfare against the family.

Who would ever think our government would secretly infect human beings with syphilis or submit WWII military to the radiation from atom bomb experiments.

@mau...Randy Weaver was selling illegal arms which sparked off the incident at Ruby Ridge. How is that relevant here?

How are many of the comments relevant in this thread. Even you should know they go all over the place.

My comment was they used psychological (PsychOps) warfare against the Weaver family. Keeping them awake at night and asking what Vicki and the kids had for breakfast after they knew she was already dead.

"In June 1990, Byerly attempted to use the sawed-off shotgun charge as leverage to get Weaver to act as an informant for his investigation into the Aryan Nations.[10] When Weaver refused to become "a snitch," the ATF filed the gun charges in June 1990, also claiming Weaver was a bank robber with criminal convictions (those claims were false: at that time Weaver had no criminal record and the subsequent Senate investigation found: "Weaver was not a suspect in any bank robberies."[10]) Weaver denied the sawed-off weapons charge, claiming that the informant had purchased two legal shotguns from him and later shortened the guns. A federal grand jury later indicted him in December 1990 for making and possessing, but not for selling, illegal weapons in October 1989.[7]"

2 more such shootings are predicted. Interesting if it will come to pass.

@Lenny Skinner & mau...I can't believe you have moved this into a government conspiracy incident. It is what it is, a disturbed individual going off the rails and killing innocents.

Lenny, if all this is true, what would be the purpose of sending in a special agent to Wisconsin to attack Sikhs? If it was simply a strategy to inspire gun control legislation it is a failure because of the stranglehold special interests have on our government. Money speaks with the loudest voice.

jbw, I bow in your presence. Reading this thread is like a trip to Bizzaro world.

that IS pretty twisted and sarcastic and dang, do you really believe that shiz?