So far from the facts and truth as East is from West. Just another atempt to blindly push the agenda. Pretty sad!

Still running with this, Keith?

"Scott Walker has set off an economic tsunami as we learned Monday night at the Shorewood Auditorium. "

God, you're an insensitive jerk.

Tasteless to use tsunami in your article and then when you compare yourself to South Africans?

Thanks for speaking out for our middle class, Keith. We need more voices speaking on behalf of the "lower 98%"!

How can anyone possibly take the comments of Keith R. Schmitz seriously? Wasn't he the manager of Shorewood's famous Open Book cooperative bookstore that was supposed to replace Harry W. Schwartz Bookshop? Didn't Open Book go bankrupt after being open less than six months? How can anyone responsibly imagine that this is an intelligent, fiscally prudent opinion that deserves consideration? Is this really the best socialist spokesperson that Shorewood has to offer?

Bewildered, I would take you as a reasonable person and I would apologize to you and to those who might have any connection with what has happened on Japan. I am sure you are aware of what I was getting at, but if the word choice offended you, please accept my apology.

Thanks!

Isn't this (below) a good thing? You can actually decide where your tax dollars are going? The debate is great and right where it should be...in the community.

"The Shorewood School Board Tuesday night voted unanimously to ask voters to approve $13.6 million to help the district meet its long-term financial obligations. If approved in the April 5 election, the district will borrow $13.645 million to pay for health benefits for retirees and to refinance its Wisconsin Retirement System debt."

Thanks for sharing the link Keith and I appreciate/respect your position, though I disagree...below is a passage from the article...Why wouldn't tax increases have the same effect on the economy only to a larger portion of the population? The second paragraph doesn't make sense and offers no data as to how the cuts would lead to a $60M increase in the deficit.

"Pay cuts for public sector workers with hurt the local economy. When families’ income shrinks, retail activity drops, costing communities millions of dollars and thousands of jobs.

Ironically, all these cuts not only fail to resolve the state deficit but increase the deficit by almost $60 million. A lose-lose budget for the state’s economy, local communities and the individuals and families who live there."

Are any of you alarmed that the school board needs to borrow $13 million to pay teacher retiree health benefits and refinance the pension? How do you refinance a pension fund anyway? Seems scary.

To fix a pension shortfall ( that has been there for years) you either raise revenue thru increased taxes (property or borrowing) or increase pension contributions, or a combination of both. Walkers cuts have nothing to do with pension fund shortfalls from the past. We must look at poor past pension fund management by fund managers or school boards (who have ultimate responsibility). Munis face same huge problem. Your right Kirk, very scary. At least all is comming out in the open and the public can now decide how to handle local matters and who to hold responsible.

Twenty days 'til the ballot box! As usual, Shorewood voters will fall for the self-imposed crisis manufactured by our fully-independent school board.

Thanks Kieth for your accurate assessment. The vast majority of Republican supporters do not even realize that the far right agenda they support costs them money. To the tune of two to three thousand dollars a year in taxes for the average Wisconsin taxpayer, to support corporate welfare. Even though those same corporations sit on profits, ship jobs overseas pay nothing in taxes and demonize public workers and rape our infrastructure through cuts. For those of you who have doubt, quit relying on the corporate media outlets which enjoy this welfare, to obtain information. There seems to be a media blackout in this State related to the political agenda. Dozens of unanswered questions to my representatives, all Republican. And then they came for me.

One other point. This Corporate welfare mainly protects large corporate interests invested in old technology and doesn't create jobs. It is innovation and small business that creates employment. I may not have a problem using tax money for seed money on great innovation but I have a problem supporting 2% of Americas richest and greediest corporate executives that contribute nothing to our society.

Lyle, I've been following our school district budget problems here in Shorewood for many, many years also. Yes, our school board is elected, by a very small percentage of eligible voters. Taxpayers/voters have been asleep at the wheel on these local issues for decades, while every year our school board manufactures a new spin on the latest crisis, refusing to develop a viable long-term plan.

If you talk to people that I'm close to, they will verify that I've been pointing to the demographic trend of falling resident student enrollment for many years. During that time, I have toured all of the schools in our district, numerous times and I've come to the conclusion that we have a growing problem of overcapacity of classroom space (i.e., many empty classrooms). As residents in our community could verify, I've been suggesting that our school district consolidate its' operations for about seven or eight years now, as I've watched this slow motion train wreck taking shape.

It has been more than a little frustrating to watch the changing faces on our school board concur over the years, that the answer to this overcapacity issue was to build even more capacity at Lake Bluff and SHS; a kind of "Field of Dreams" approach. As I'm sure that you understand from your extensive life experience, adding fixed costs in the face of declining demand is a fatal error in judgment. I have argued repeatedly that this is the scenario we are watching play itself out here on the local level.

It's the small business that create the jobs, and Walker answering the call from the WMC, which represents the old, entrenched interests.

He has more than indicated that he is not interested in attracting the new technologies. Have been very disappointed how the usually astute Tom Still has been making excuses for Walker.

When Walker chases away embryonic stem cell research to satisfy his medieval supporters from Wisconsin Right to Life that will be the last straw.

Reading Bob McBrides' statements obviously Kieth and him seem to have history. I have tried to debate these issues with otherwise reasonable people and the conversation usually ends in someone saying I don't know what I am talking about, call me delusional and almost never are able to articulate their opinion as to why we are better off by permitting large corporations to operate freely with taxpayer support. I do not support the Idea that I have to support business. Free Markets? Bob , can you articulate why I am better off giving money to the Koch brothers rather than my public school system? Or social security? Or health care? Or my children and grandchildren for that matter. I am angry too but I hope I don't have to revert to name calling to articulate some very important issues. Let's keep our eye on the ball and debate the facts. We will all be the beneficiary if we can define the problems and negotiate our differences. My neighbor and I are polar opposites on this issue and though his argument is "I support Scott Walker" I am not going to jeopardize our relationship by calling him names and degrading him. I will continue to argue points and facts as I understand them.

Hi Michael, thanks for your input. To me, the question isn't about giving money to your children or grandchildren...it's how much are we going to ask them to pay? Your school board needs to borrow money ($13 million) to pay for the Teachers pension. The question is how far that $13million will go and when they will ask the town for another referrendum to borrow again. And, this will be the case all over the country. We're all upset, but my anger isn't directed at Walker, it's at every politician before him that rubber stamped these approvals...you mention greed on the corporate side...fair enough, I agree, but what about greed on the public/union side? Politicians wanting to be popular, get elected and money to run their campaigns and school unions demands all while enrollment is going down...The focus is all on collective bargaining...fine, good issue, but what about a Teachers right to opt out of the union if they want? Shouldn't that be first on any union debate? So your solution sounds like it would be to increase taxes on corporations, right? Doesn't that go back to your comment about jobs being shipped oversees, moved out of state, or eliminated? CEO's are held accountable to financial goals, wouldn't it be nice if our politicians were held to a balanced budget?

Lyle: The plan hasn't exactly been scrapped, but it looks as though it has been quietly nudged to the back burner in lieu of the April 5th referendum. Perhaps if consolidation received as much informational marketing as the referendum, it might actually gain some popular support.

I agree with your assessment that perhaps further consolidation with other North Shore districts begs to be seriously considered also, but I don't hold out much hope for that with all the egos involved.

The local consolidation though, could be implemented as soon as this fall. The studies have all been long completed. The last I heard, our school board was waiting for the 2010 local census results. Their magic number was a median age of forty or more, in order to seriously consider consolidation.

Much further beyond all of this, my biggest concern is that if consolidation not undertaken, the overachieving North Shore schools will be slowly swallowed up by the underachieving MPS schools, with the intention of affecting statistical results. I realize many would say that this could never happen, but I believe that it could become the reality in coming decades unless residents begin to take a more realistic long-term view of fixed costs.

Hi Bob, I agree that spending needs to be controlled. My statement about sending money to Koch companies is not an opinion. It is fact. I am a product of public education. I value an educated society. Please tax me to support educating our children. Please leave my taxes to support society, not business. The sky is not going to fall if these businesses are left to compete in the free market. Another point I would like to make is that by supporting big business, we put our small business owners at a competitive disadvantage by supporting large corporate interests. My children and grandchildren would best be served by by abolishing tax support for business . That is my opinion. Abolishing tax support for business will substantially reduce our deficit. That is fact. Sorry Bob but you did not succeed in providing enough facts to sway me. Although you bring up some good points which I could agree with. Thanks for your input for debate.

Hi Lyle, thanks for the insight..great perspective and I'm sure consolidation will have to be looked at as a solution across the country.

Michael, even though unions aren't your argument, you comment is not correct...teachers do not have a choice...if they want to teach in Wisconsin they must be part of the union and have funds taken from their paycheck...actually, this was Walker asked for this choice in his repair bill.

As for free markets, do you really think CEO's make more money here than anywhere else in the world? I don't have any stats on that, but it seems more like an understandable, but emotional comment. How are we financing a corporation that opens in an emerging market? When you start talking about free markets I would defer to Alan Greenspan's recent comments about the economy where he mentioned the Gov't stimulus is to blame for the lagging growth...ie Gov't borrowing has made it harder for corporations to borrow at decent rates (8-9%)...personally, I believe that companies are ready to make longer term investments in things like technology and hiring again, but are waiting on our Gov't to approve a budget...let alone balance one.

I'm not sure what you're asking with your individual making $62K question? Are you asking what we should do with that person?

Either way, the great thing that has come out of all of this is that we are now more involved.

Bewildered, I do not think that US corporations are bad. Nor do I think unions are bad. I believe we have bad policy. As you know, not all corporations receive this special treatment. Small business certainly not. Stock Market is global and as an investor I choose to invest as I see fit. American or otherwise.

Bob- you question the "inner censor" of Keith, yet you really think it is appropriate to call him an insensitive jerk, arrogant ass, an idiot and question his grip on reality? Hmmm....interesting logic.

Bob- How sad. You have all these opinions on so many issues that you are so willing to articulate on a daily basis, yet you resort to name calling in this one. It's not really helping matters.

Thanks to what ever position Bob thinks he occupies in this society he feels naturally that he has every right to censor the use of words that are in the common parlance. I am sure he would demand no less from Rush, Glenn and Charlie. Like Jon Stewart points out, conservatives don't apologize, they only double down.

You left out one thing Bob. How was the point illogical? In your PC fury you never mentioned that.

Let me melt this for you. How is Walker's budget not going to be damaging to the Shorewood economy?

Again, if you are a regular listener to Rush, Glenn and Charlie I find it amusing you'd get hung up on my use of one noun. These guys do outrageous crap like this day after day, hour after hour.

Aren't WE the one's that get attacked for being PC?

Don't why you had to make this personal?

Pls don't limp Bob's tone/attitude with all conservatives, just as I don't lump those with Hitler signs or making death threats with all liberals. This thjread was going so well this morn, lets try to keep it constructive. We all know we are not changing anyone's minds, and I, for one, enjoy the give and take.Why even Lyle and I agree on the pension crisis.Who da thunk it!

Bob, while often we are in agreement, pls tone it down. You are not helping your view points(or mine) at all.

Bob, once again I find myself in agreement with you on all of the opinion journalism that our society is exposed to from large corporate media. I have long sought information on the internet to help me make sense of the issues. I unfortunately find myself writing a check to the IRS every year. And yes Bob, some of that money flows right into the Kochs pockets. Fact. Do some internet searches on corporate welfare, the beneficiaries of it. Do some internet searches of executive pay US vs the rest of the world. Search the cost of corporate welfare to the taxpayer. If you are waiting for the Journal or the corporate media to provide information and fact you will remain ignorant by design. That is my opinion of course. My statements represent a lot of fact based information. My ignorance on this subject, I admit, far outweighs what I know. But my teachers managed to produce a free thinker with the tools to seek and understand if I have the will. And I do have the will.

Michael, I need to see proof to back up your statement"sending money to Koch companies" Pls show me the budget line, transaction or check written by Repubs to Koch. Don't need to see liberal opinion/blogs/articles, just hard facts.

I will agree that tax incentives have been offered to Koch companies, like all outstate companies, if they bring new business to WI and employ at leas t51% of new workforce with WI residents. This is what the new Jobs Inititive Bill states and I believe its a good thing to encourage creation of new jobs . Doyle also offered tax breaks to Harley and Merc to stay in state.

Regarding the selling off of state properties without comp bidding, what we are talking about is abandoned power plants. I don't see a huge line of potential bidders for obsolete power plants and am glad for any opportunity to recoup costs on "white elephants". Again, pls document what sales to Koch have occured with these properties.

If you can produce the facts I've asked for, you could well change my mind on these issues. Till then, I must admit demonizing Kock is getting old. For every Koch, I could give you a Soros.

Hi Michael...thanks for your insight on CEO pay..you're right...quick search showed Japan CEO's make far less...didn't see the $1million cap, but either way, your point is taken...If you agree with Greenspan's comments I tend to think we're not that far off..as for Koch and Bewildered's response...it's great, at least now we're starting to share more and will know more about candidates that run for office and who their biggest supporters are...ie John McCain's campaign finance reform bill that didn't get approved..

With regard to your question...I agree, I wouldn't want to see anyone degraded at any level...unfortunately, many people in the private sector have been degraded over these past few years as well...I have friends that have gone through multiple rounds of demotions in order to keep their job. I'm sure you know some as well...so more testament of the economy than politics..

Bob, I/we value your input so please don't shut down...I also (as an Asian American) thought Keith's tsunami comment was tasteless, but he was man enough to apologize and we move on...

I'm hopeful that whatever the solution that comes out of this will be a compromise of intelligent people on either side of the debate coming together...This is where we have a chance to show all politicians that we aren't going to put up with their crap anymore. Both sides spend more time looking to blame the other than actually trying to solve problems...let's show them how to do it.

How does the average assessed value for property in Shorewood impact State aid to Shorewood School District?

If the average assessed value were lower, would Shorewood receive more State Aid?

Lower assessed values would not lower the School District levy or the amount paid by each property owner but would it raise the amount of State Aid paid to the district?

Kirk I so agree with you. I have enjoyed these exchanges with all of you. I reserve the right to disagree if that is still a right.
Bewildered. Here is some reference for you. Had to delete some because of space. Please form your own conclusions as to the credibility of the things you read as I try to do. The internet is full information. Without it I would be confined to large corporate media opinion journalism. At any rate I enjoyed the exchange. Until next time

Bartlett, Donald L., and James B. Steele. 'Five Ways Out: There Are Solutions to the Corporate Welfare Mess—But Who Goes First?" Time, 30 November 1998, 66.
Celente, Gerald. "Capitalism for Cowards." New York Times, 16 October 1998, A27.
"Corporate Welfare." Time, 9 November 1998, 36.
Dennis, Richard J. "Privilege and Poverty." Reason, April 1993, 29.
Donlan, Thomas G. 'The Big Handouts: Corporate Welfare Impoverishes the Productive Economy.' Barron's, 27 March 1995, 50.
Ferguson, Tim W., and Josephine Lee. "Corporate Welfare.'" Forbes, 20 April 1998, 42.
Glassman, James K. "The Corporate Welfare Queens: When It Comes to Subsidies for Companies, Congress Can't Say No." U.S. News and World Report, 19 May 1997, 53.

Gleckman, Howard. "Welfare Cuts: Now, It's Corporate America's Turn." Business Week, 10 April 1995, 37.
Hemphill, Thomas A. "Confronting Corporate Welfare." Business Horizons 40, no. 6 (November/December 1997): 2.
Rodgers, T. J. "End Corporate Welfare Now!" Chief Executive (U.S.), December 1998

What really bugs me about Walker and his approach is he is so last century. No wait, the century before that one.

Modern management works to collaborate with their employees, not rule by fiat. Modern management knows that growth comes from innovation. Walker is doing all he can to chase it away.

But for someone who spent scant time in business and now is a puppet of two brothers who inherited their wealth, what do you expect.

Keith: Inheritance in itself is not bad. If a person inherits money and he can grow it throughout his life he was probably worthy of it; if not, he probably will lose most or all of it.

Do you feel the same way about Chris Abele and his inheritance? Has Cris Abele been able to multiply his inheritance by many times over while at the same time employing tens of thousands of employees (other than parking attendants). Has he been a profitable business partner to 1000s of other businesses and investors which have employed tens of thousands of employees, too? Chris Abel and the Koch Brothers have the right to enjoy their inheritance.

The person who has earned and saved their money so that at some point in their life are able to give it in the form of inheritance or as a gift has the right to give it to anyone they wish. For someone to feel as though another should not have received such inheritance is selfish and greedy and admittedly does not recognize the right of ownership with which that gift was given in the first place.

Dave S, unions that work in collaborative companies will be collaborative Bad management breeds bad unions.

I've been in many UAW plants (I don't belong to a union) where the employees were insisting, yes insisting, on process improvements.

Walker is nothing about building bridges. He's for blowing them up, or at least not paying for them so they fall apart.

My son-in-law has no college degree and he handles a rather a major position with Facebook. It depends on how people handle themselves. Walker acts like a person who is in way over his head.

Really? Does he handle himself like he's in over his head, or does he make decisions as a leader you disagree with so the only thing you have is to say he "acts like a person who is in way over his head".

Anyway, thank you for your supporting arguments as to why the UAW and other Unions are bad for productivity.

Dean -- what makes you think most teachers didn't want to collaborate? This is what bothers me. You all assume that teachers don't want to handle themselves professionally. Maybe a few, but that's where ever you work. Herein lies the problem.

For the past 20 years you have rabid right business organizations with their jockies in a bunch because teachers are in unions, and so they are in their gun sights. A lot of negative actions from the teacher's unions are because of a siege mentality, which for the most part is understandable.

Keith, you've missed the point. The employees ARE onboard with the improvements, and help develop them. It's the union leadership that resists.

Dean -- don't put words in my mouth by virtue of your twisted logic. You're better than that. Yeah he's in over his head. Look at the mess he left in Milwaukee County -- cutting bus routes and access to 40,000 jobs, leaving 900 buildings in poor maintenance, letting the mental health complex turn into a set for Blade Runner, etc. He is picking up where he left on a grand scale with the state.

Personally, I tend to favor Walker if for nothing else throwing a tough decision out there and creating all of this, which, I view as a great thing...Not sure this would have happened with any other candidate, which, would have been more status quo - more spending without thought of impact to the future. So if you love or hate the guy, at least things are coming out to the public so we can make more informed decisions....Has any other politician offered a different plan? Obama is the one that seems like he's in over his head to me...today was the first we've heard from him on Japan....nothing on Libya, and just as concerning is nothing on the budget...but at least his bracets are done :-) No, I don't fault him for taking the time to do them...just wish he was taking leadership of his Gov't, but I wonder what will happen with the US's ability to borrow as Japan sells off more of our debt...can anyone shed some light on that?

No conservative need to exhibit courage, because they are assured that they billionaire patrons will buy their way back into office. Walker doesn't care about the future, he doesn't care about this state, he cares about catering to the Kochs and other wealthy supporters. There were any number of ways to skin this cat, but his is way too ideological and way too uncreative to come up with alternatives.

Nothing is more dangerous than having an ideologue set policy, because we have to clean up the mess as we are will have to in Milwaukee county.

As far as your nonsense slights at Obama, why don't you follow the news more? He is damned more connected than that dunce from Texas.

Wha, wha, wha about attacking Conservatives. We can certainly accuse you of this game when it comes to liberal, so stop the crying and stick to the discussion. This is getting boring Dean.

You obviously have more time to waste than I do so here's an assignment. Look up the UWM report that details the effects of the cuts had on job creation. Tim Sullivan at Bucyrus said he had 500 positions he had trouble filling because of cuts to the bus lines.

And I certainly don't have time for childish gotcha. I made no such case, except in your imagination, that support getting unions out of government.

Have fun with this. I have work to do.

I feel blindsided by the bill that was rammed. I feel hurt when people make fun of the protestors because they can't feel their pain. I pay more taxes than the Koch brothers, and they're sitting somewhere laughing right now, while I'm scrambling to insure my kids. It makes me sick.

Gentlemen, what a spirited exchange. Can we debate issues? The distractions of political mantra and the discord it is designed to create prey on the honesty and intelligence citizens have to solve issues. You guys do realize that we have been manipulated to focus on things that divide us rather than issues. We can solve problems , being money, be it through taxes or he or she has this or that and I don't and I want it so I'll take it , by following the money. Where does your money go and is it going to a good cause. How fast things change, from identifying gov waste to cutting services. As a society are we really going to support lavish life styles for a few hundred greedy rich people by having our pocket books picked to the tune of several thousand dollars a year per taxpayer, to support corporate welfare. Educating our children, taking care of the elderly or people who have been screwed by losing their jobs due to corporate financial institutions collapsing due to greed is where I would like to see my taxes go. Bailed out by taxpayers these institutions are again profitable and rewarding executives with pay packages that would make most school districts drool. Have I taken a wrong turn some place?
is this still Wisconsin. Have we lost our moral compass. Walker is not the perpetrator of his agenda. Merely the "tool" of those that created him. I mean no disrespect to all the wealthy people that use their money to better society, of which their are many.

You seem very defensive Keith...the only bashing I see on here are directed at Walker..I just mentioned that Obama seems distant lately...below is a comment from a member of his own party... Again, did any other politician offer a solution or different proposal to Walker's plan? My opinion is that it took great courage on his part to propose a balanced budget...please stop with the Koch brothers...we get it...notice none of us are asking who's funding the protests or the recalls...the fact is all politicians have monetary backing and therefore vested interests...we need to stop the liberals vs. conservatives - everyone to date is to blame...including you and I for letting it go on so long, but now we can make the appropriate changes...the bickering back and forth about who to blame doesn't change the financial problem that Shorewood, WI, and the US are in right now...

"West Virginia Sen. Joe Manchin (D) criticized President Obama in a floor speech Tuesday, "The truth of the matter is that this debate, as important as it is, will not be decided by House Republicans and Senate Democrats negotiating with each other -- or past each other," Manchin said. "This debate will be decided when the president leads these tough negotiations. And, right now, that is not happening."

Wow, I leave for the afternoon and come back to dialog going off in all sorts of different directions. I have just encountered text concerning inheritance, private unions, etc. Glad to see Dave S back into the fray.
Most of my business career was spent working with industrial process systems. I have encountered unions all over the country and also out of the country. In comparing private unions and public unions, it is like comparing night and day. To compare the two groups is not comparing apples to apples. Unions representing workers in the private sector have and are much more militant and I would say that most of the excesses that people have cited are those of the private unions. Treating public unions in the same manner by the opposition will only have the effect of creating more militant public unions.

Hi Michael, great comments...though we disagree on some points, I still feel like you have the rational thinking that will be needed to come up with an acceptable plan for Shorewood...I keep askingthis question and I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion of Walker, but has any other politician offered a different solution? I think we're all open to hearing what could be done differently...if it is to raise taxes, by how much and for how long, where is the money going to be spent..etc...Thanks again for your perspective...

Taking nite off to watch NCAAs. Go Badgers. Good comments today. I'll be watching. Stick to facts, hold emotions and namecalling in check. This thread can be fun and educational if we let it. Oh yea, ready for that beer, Lyle. I may be talked into buying.

Lyle: I agree that donations to PACs, politicians and campaigns by all businesses and unions should be ended. Only individual contributions, at a set limit, should be allowed. But, I am also very skeptical that any politician, or majority of politicians would possibly be willing to see this through into law. What are your thoughts?

Joe, I am afraid that you are right that they wouldn't pass it into law. Europeans don't have the same problem because of public financing of elections and no private contributions. Given that the legislatures would have to pass the laws that would cut off their money, won't happen in my lifetime. I am afraid it's going to get a great deal worse before it gets any better. The current funding of campaigns is really destroying our democracy.

One thing about this recall. Sure our electoral system is choked with money, but it need not have an effect if people were politically active. This movement may prove that our time might beat their money.

Feingold said in Nation interview after the election that he could have had another $100 million and he still wouldn't have won the election because of the mood of the electorate. That door swings both ways.

Yeah it would be great if we could get the money out of the system and we must. Maybe increased activism might break the back of the this cancer on the body politic.

Hi Guys, I have a Question. Did the Governor" give us the tools" to deal with local budget problems by allowing us to cut or furlough or did he take them away from us by not allowing us to deal with it in the only other prudent manner, seeking tax equity locally and raising taxes?

Hi Michael, great response! And I will hold you to that dinner :-) Some great ideas proposed, I think a sales tax increase would be a fair solution, great suggestion...I agree with you on us paying for new stadiums as well! It's especially irritating during the NFL negotiations...$9Billion/yr in the NFL and they need our tax dollars? I grew up in Massachusetts and one of the things the state did was require a mandatory annual car inspection as well as a yearly excise tax that wasn't great, but at least I knew the person with the Mercedes was paying more to keep their car on the road...could be an option.

Joe, thanks for the insight...I'm a big fan of Greenspan...not sure how I feel about Bernanke yet...QE2 seemed like a slippery slope to me and now with the events in Japan, not sure it will help stabilize the dollar...people are already talking about the fact that the dollar will be a thing of the past soon...which, I must admit is too big for me to even comprehend....I was looking forward to telling my grandchildren "I remember when a diet coke cost...$1.75" :-)

Keith, great comments on campaign finance...imagine how that extra money could be used!

Kieth. Your article and this forum was a great exchange of ideas. I am from Mequon and haven't found a forum locally. Our issues are similar. You have great citizens on the North Shore as you can tell from this debate. There have been great ideas and I have learned from the experience. I have rethought my position on boycotting business for instance. Great comments too guys on campaign reform.

Bewildered -- it's happened before. If you recall, a few years ago Milwaukee county voters passed a sales tax increase for the parks and public transportation.

Though not my favorite means for revenue increases because it is regressive, but people have indicated they would go for that. I would bet now more than ever.

Lyle, we could also collect the internet tax on Amazon and others.

Spent time with him and know others who have. I and they think he's OK.

Yeah, this is embarrassing, but what we need is someone who can get us all to work together. With the money being cut off from Madison, we are going to have to depend on ourselves. He has proven his ability to work with a variety of groups -- liberal and conservative, business and non-profit -- and to get things done, and would be a good partner for Tom Barrett.

As far as the parking tickets, did you ever notice what a pain in the ass those parking stations are? If I had the money I would probably just get the ticket and pay for the ticket.

None of this doesn't mean Abele cares any less for Milwaukee county or it's people. He has worked very hard and sweated blood on the projects he has been involved with.

Dung, the higher taxes thing in Wisconsin is a myth. Paul Soglin once did an analysis of business groups in 20 states and they all said they had the highest taxes.

Don't fall for the hype. When these business groups talk about having taxes cut it is only their taxes.

You apparently have no realization of the excess pain these cuts will create, and as has been pointed out there are many other ways to close the gap.

Lyle, Excellent view points. Until current politics change you know where all that newly generated piggy bank will go. Remember that it wasn't that long ago, (my memory is short ) that we had great parks, public transportation, public community schools that provided good education measured nationally. Our elderly felt secure. Services were provided for the the less fortunate. Corporate executives only made 100 times that of the average employee. Citizens were focused on bright futures for themselves and their children. Then. Corporate welfare started sucking funds out of the Fed. There were less funds to return to the states. There were less funds to promote social programs. We are still on that trend. They are still sucking us dry and they are blatant about it. They for whatever reason will not be happy until they have all the wealth. As long as we submit to this insanity they will rob our infrastructure of the service it provides. I believe that the greatest majority of our talking points would go away if we merely stopped supporting corporate welfare. That coupled with your sales tax ideas could not only solve our issues but we could talk about initiatives to support local innovation which would promote the much needed jobs. We could talk about and solve issues that are so important to our society in the arena of our environment. Issues are endless and we have been taken out of the conversation. You make good points

Let’s talk about raising taxes. First off, where does the perception that corporations don’t pay taxes come from? Corporate taxes are easy to locate in any annual statement. I checked Goldman Sachs as an example. Last year, after deductions and credits, they paid $3.2 billion in taxes for an effective tax rate of 35.2%. Quite a bit more than zero.

The highest profit level in one quarter for all US corporations on record is $1.7 trillion, rounded up. Now, let’s say that all corporations indefinitely post record profits, earning $6.8 trillion / year, and that they pay 35% in taxes. In order to close our current budget gap of $1.4 trillion, we would need to raise all corporate taxes to 56%. Now, we still owe $14 trillion in federal debt, plus $400 billion / year in interest. If we took 100% of corporate profit, it would still take 6-7 years to pay off our debt. So I ask, how much tax is enough for the far left? Corporations already send business overseas because operating costs are lower. How many corporations will stick around when we jack tax rates up another 20-30%?

Hi Dave, 66% of US corporations pay no tax. Info available to you on the internet. Some corporations not only enjoy the benefit of not paying taxes but also enjoy "subsidies", or corporate welfare if you will. Is it your position that taxpayer responsibility is to large, and make no mistake here, small business doesn't reap all these rewards, corporate conglomerates whose execs make more money than anyone needs, over the needs of our citizens? I am not in favor of selecting yet another group of people, this instance the rich, to target to hate like we just did to our public workers. This is all a distraction. Dave, do you realize how much the position of supporting businesses in this manner costs all of us? I am not advocating tax increases on them. I am advocating tax reduction for us. Georgia Pacific for instance, they can make a profit without the taxpayers building roads on their private land. The list of this abuse is endless. So if we choose to support lavish executive lifestyle, don't you think we should dig in our pockets a little deeper so that we can enjoy life too? Or should we just stop doing some thins the same old way?

According to a University of Calgary study: "With a statutory corporate tax rate of almost 40%, one of the world’s highest, the researchers conclude that the U.S. corporate tax system acts as a drag on economic growth and encourages business to shift investment and profits to lower-taxed jurisdictions."

The report from the GAO which states 66% of US corporations don't pay taxes is from 2008, and cites data from 1998-2005. In 2007, AMT was introduced, which imposes a minimum 20% income tax on corporations.

Yes, I do think that taxpayer responsibility is too large, but that's not the whole issue. Continually taxing the "haves" to support the "have-nots" will turn us into an unsustainable welfare state. It also removes incentive to work harder and earn more.

Hi Dave, I have asked many people who the haves are and who the have nots are and I am still confused . Could you tell me who these people are so I know how to identify them?

Michael, regarding "Georgia Pacific for instance, they can make a profit without the taxpayers building roads on their private land. " I don't disagree with you, and my intention wasn't to start a debate about the federal budget. My intention was to cite an example that simply raising taxes on the rich won't fix our problems. If we raise taxes high enough that it matters, corporations will leave the country, and our tax revenues will shrink. We can't raise enough revenue to matter without cutting spending.

Dave another question. I am not sure I understand your last statement. Is it taxes that removes incentive or was there something else?

Michael, I guess that was a little confusing. I'm simply stating that if you take more and more of my income as it increases, my incentive to earn that money goes down, or I'll move to a lower tax area where it won't be taken. As far as the haves and have nots, my response would be - who do you define as the "rich"?

Dave, I agree with you.I don't like the IDEA of targeting any group. But we do need to identify waste. Corporate welfare makes #1 on my list for waste.This is polar to free market principles. My point is that if we had equity in our tax system, civil and corporate, we may find the money for all the good and humane things needing attention and have some money left in our pockets to boot. Your reference from Calgary ,was that for a US study or Canadian? And another peave of mine is the cash economy. Drugs, prostitution, working for cash and the list goes on. Sucking 25% of the GDP tax free. but its OK to strip children poor and elderly of support? I am taking a deep breath. I guess this is not my vision of fair representative governance .

Hi Dave, For starters, by rich I mean the top 400 richest Americans that have accumulated more wealth than the bottom half of the Americans. Many of whom are charitable. But many also enjoy the benefits of subsidies. Makes me boil

Dave, we fought to overthrow an aristocracy 230 years ago. Why do we have to do it all over again?

It's Keith.

And regards to France. The reason for that revolution was that this aristocracy was not paying their taxes, and expected the lower class to support the government.

As for the golden days, in the US which for many people were the 50s, the top 2% were paying a tax rate of 90%. Our economy was booming, plus we helped Europe and Japan rebuild after WWII.

Bewildered, you have to overlook the sideshows with Abele's past. What counts is now, and what he is doing is getting diverse segments of our community to work together.

This is what counts for the future of our metro area.

If you groove on the private sector having a major role, this is what Chris is able (pardon the pun) is able to do.

I hate to correct you Lyle, but what you assert was the original intent which morphed into the realization that they needed to throw off the British aristocracy, otherwise there would have been no desire to make a break for independence. As for the French ,the failed grain harvest was the spark, but the taxation of the poor and middle class in lieu of upper income taxes led to the Revolution. In fact, driving force behind the French Revolution was mainly the middle class, like it will be now.

My issue with Abele is I just don't know what he is doing now. He has no record to run on politicaly sure hos past could be a sideshow, but hos past judgement has to be questioned. I actualy like the guy and think he could do the job, it's just that he's definitely a wild card. No matter who wins county exec, they face huge deficits. Expenses will have to be cut and fat trimmed. I think both guys could do the work, with all this neg that has come out (see today's Journal), now I don't think Abele can win anymore. Way too much baggage. Should have been vested before primary and everyone jumped on his bandwagon. It's a shame cause good guy, lousy judgement.

iPhone spelling. The "hos"s are meant to be "his"s

Freudian slip? :)

Ya know, that's exactly what I was thinking too

Wanted to Share this . I would take any one of you that participated in this exchange to govern over any body I supported in recent elections. I am pleased I can say I did not vote for Walker and am now trying to help amend the mistake I made voting for bought and paid for supporters of his. Stay in the debate. Having knowledge makes decisions easy. I am still in preschool in politics, but the goal is now a masters.

Edward Bernays, the founder of the modern propaganda industry, described the process:

Those who manipulate the unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government. We are governed, our minds molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested largely by men we have never heard of ... in almost every act of our lives whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires that control the public mind.[1]

Keith, first, sorry about calling you Kevin. Don’t know where that came from. Next, the tax rate in the 50’s was 90% of taxable income over $400,000. Adjusted for inflation, that’s income over $3.5 million in today’s dollars. Today we tax income over $350,000 at 35%, which equates to income over $40,000 in 1950. There isn't as much difference as you think.

Also, comparing our economy in the 50’s with any other period is ridiculous. We were booming from manufacturing of war materials and post-war reconstruction efforts across the globe. By the way, who was our competition then? The economies of Europe and Asia were decimated.

Kirk: I'd advise a bit of caution on your blanket support for Greenspan. I thought that he did an excellent job as Fed Chief for his first three terms, balancing the two major Fed mandates of steady growth with low inflation. That said, I think that he gradually began to show his true philosophical colors (libertarian and disciple of Ayn Rand) towards the end of his third term (late '90's). He was a major supporter of the repeal of the Glass-Stegall Act of 1933, which had previously separated banks, insurance companies and investment companies. This was repealed on Nov. 12, 1999 by the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act (end of the Clinton administration).

During his last two terms, the Greenspan Fed ignored one of it's other important mandates to monitor these monster institutions that Gramm-Leach-Bliley created. Mortgage lending was allowed to expand unchecked after this point, along with the mortgage derivatives markets, with Greenspan's libertarian blessing that the markets were capable of self-regulation.

After the dot.com bubble burst on March 10, 2000 and the Sept. 11, 2001 the Greenspan Fed kept interest rates too low for much too long, which exacerbated the formation of the unregulated real estate and derivatives bubbles. Greenspan retired as Fed Chairman on Jan. 31, 2006, about one year before the real estate bubble burst and the financial crisis began. I personally believe that he realized his errors in judgment and decided to get the hell out of the public eye.

For those of you who haven't read it, I'd highly recommend Secrets Of The Temple: How The Federal Reserve Runs The Country, by William Greider, 1987. I think you'll be fascinated how a better understanding of this institution will affect your thinking on many of the topics discussed in these forums.

Dean, I'll post here to avoid pursuing past posts to answer. Your rant towards me leaves me wondering what your point or points are. You said nothing fact based. Didn't argue issues and called me names. If you read my posts carefully you would realize that I could care less about somebody else's money. Anyone is entitled to die with as much money as they can accumulate. Right? Best man wins.!Great! You win. All I am trying to say is that MY TAX DOLLARS are for EDUCATION. Not PROFITABLE BUSINESS. If you have a problem finding some of your money, perhaps you should be looking in a different basket.

Shorewood has always "had the tools". The problem is that the unions and boards of shorewood have always taken the easy way out by using our children and education to put us on a guilt trip.

There has never been a law that forced shorewood to hire SEVEN people at the village hall for inspections with salary and benefits much higher than what is needed to attract qualified employees.

There has never been a law that forced shorewood to pay 7 years of a retired teacher's salary. There has never been a law that forced the boards to spend the way they did.

There has never been a law that forced shorewood to preserve its "diverse" architecture or to bring back brick in the streets that can't even last one winter. Frugality of the government used to be a given fact, now it is just a dream.

We have "had the tools", our leaders have chosen to maximize our extravagance at the law's edge and minimize frugality at the hope someone else will bail us out.

Dean, I have no argument with government waste. I agree that government should lean and there are many ways to reduce the waste. I have no argument of reigning in abuse of the system. My argument is that education along with most of the infrastructure society has built serves a purpose. Banks tanked the economy. Many of us have had a hard time dealing with the fallout. Everytime the economy dumps the first thing every one looks at is their property tax bill. Those dang teachers are sucking up all the money. Not so. If you have ever read the book"Who Moved My Cheese" you may get what I'm getting at. The taxpayers cheese has been moved to the room of profitable business at the federal level and has a direct impact on how much cheese the rest of us mice get. I can provide the proof of my statement if you like.