Take a man fishing, and he'll drink all of your beer.
Pasch has nothing to run on but the tired, old, class warfare that the dems have been hauling out and dusting off year after year. Isn't creating a negative business environment by taxing the hell out of Wisconsin corporations kind of short sighted Sandy?

@Raptor...A Nanny State, aren't you a bit overstating the situation. You think are wounded veterans, who live off the government for the rest of their lives need to stop accepting their disability? What about a child who loses a parent, should they not receive SSI survivor benefits? What about the mentally and physically disabled, who should help them? Are you proposing a eugenics solution?

Finally, it is one thing to teach a man to fish, but what if there are no fish in the pond; then what?

Lyle, I don't want to speak for Raptor but what I get out of their post is in the same vein of discussions we have had in the past: the government is not merely a safety net now, rather it's become a lifelong support system for many, by their choice. And we're not talking about disabled veterans here or children that have lost parents. They certainly deserve our support. We're talking about the folks that make the decision, intended or not, to make a mess of their lives(by giving up on education, using drugs, choosing crime) and thus end up living off the government for the rest of their lives. If there is no fish in the pond then move to the pond with fish in it. Are we supposed to subsidize people that continue to want to live here when there are no jobs for their skillset? Then get a new skillset or move to the place that needs your skillset. We don't have the proverbial buggy whip mftrs anymore, they were replaced with automobile mftring and so on...there will always be more new businesses and opportunities available(if the democrats don't tax it to death). Lets stop the excuses and start making people accountable for their actions...how about the old American get up and get to it attitude? Seeing quite a bit of that sorely lacking these days. I guess for every one that has a "woe is me" attitude a new democrat is born.

To that point, I would like to add that the choice to remain 'in the system' isn't always made by those receiving the benefits. One of the flaws of the old system was that it was very difficult to get out of it and start providing for oneself. W2 attempted to address that issue, but I still think it falls short of helping people make the transition from welfare to work.

@235301...Good to hear from you again. As usual you're blaming the victim for being poor. If there isn't any fish in the pond, then move to a new pond. Sounds simple enough, but there have to ponds with fish in them somewhere and if you haven't noticed, fish are getting tougher and tougher to find. Besides, if you can find a new pond with fish, how are you going to get there without resources? By the way, do you have any idea how many people meet your definition of on permanent government dependence? I'll be interested to see your answer.

@CowDung...W2 has failed because there are no jobs to train into. With a glut of skilled labor with experience, jobs go to those people first when they come open. Walker and the legislature also saw fit to stop paying for people to work in the Bill 10. It is proven that it was actually cheaper to support families on AFDC than do this W2 program.

Lyle, if you want to place "blame" for someone to be in the position they are in life then yes, I blame the individual. Some people are dealt a worse hand than others but there is enough opportunity in this country for you to make something of yourself despite the hurdles that are put in front of you. Don't blame the govt or conservatives or business owners for the position you find yourself in, go out and find a way to make it. Those union jobs that paid $40-$60/hr for someone with no more than a HS educ are gone. It's a global marketplace now and if someone in China will do your job for $1/hr and it's practical to do it in China, well the writing is on the wall for what is going to happen to your job. Everyone has to deal with this reality, from the boss on down to the guy sweeping the floors. If you want to do no more than a HS degree then be smart and look at a trade like plumbing or electrician...If you are inclined to go to college well that dual degree in Art History/Aboriginal Studies is going to be quite useless. Sorry. Choose wisely. Pick a skillset that can't be offshored because it's local(plumbing) or it's a very difficult skill to acquire(engineering, nursing, accounting). We always want to say to our children "do something you love". Well that's doing them a disservice. Do something that the market place values and will pay you well.

@235301...What do you say to the children born into poverty and no nothing else. How is it their fault? Your understanding of conditions and options is naive at best.

A person's ability to overcome the challenges presented is contingent on a number of variables. I know that you are probably not well versed in the social sciences, but if you start life in an environment where little opportunity exists and there aren't role models available to show you the way, it becomes exceedingly difficult to change one's station and status. You need to seriously evaluate where you started on the ladder and compare it to someone who begins at the very bottom, you already have a leg up on success.

I don't know what your status or history is, but you seem to be limited in life experience, especially when dealing with people outside your Socio Economic Class.

Lyle, we stand on the shoulders of our parents, and they stood on their parents shoulders, etc...each generation has to lift the next up. The government can't do it, throwing money can't do it. The only sane answer to me is that this generation of poor has to say we're going to throw our children on top of our shoulders and lift them up. This has to be done through proper upbringing, education....the government provides all the structural means necessary for the poor to provide these needs to their children. But they aren't availing themselves to those means. We are now throwing more money than ever at the problem and it is getting worse not better. We need a sane solution to the problem and it isn't going to come from charlatans like Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton. Nor will it come from the Democratic party. Let's be frank, the Democrats benefit from having a suppressed poor class. It's a built in voting block. "Look at those nasty, rich Republicans, they put you here! Vote Democrat!"

@235301...In contemporary middle and upper class white American society the model is that each generation is supported by the previous one. But in the particular group we are talking about they have no shoulders to stand on. You claim that the parents must step up to boost their children. I want to know what we are to do if they don't do as you require? Are you prepared to allow people to suffer and starve? Do you want to force them into involuntary labor? What are you proposing?

That's the rub Lyle....I'm out of bullets if the current generation has no intention of making life better for their children. Is society/government to be expected to raise them? And how? As Orwellian as it sounds, government run boarding school from the time they are toddlers is probably their best hope. I'm open to any ideas that make sense. What I do know is what what we have been doing for the last 40 yrs isn't working. We're giving checks to the people least likely to help them with those monies: their parents.

As far as "involuntary" labor...what about throwback ideas like the CCC and the like? Would it be so horrible to require labor in return for a government check? We have a ton of infrastructure in this country that is crumbling. Why not put people to work instead of just handing out checks and leaving them sit at home? And if they are working wouldn't they perhaps be gaining valuable skills? And a sense of self worth and accomplishment? I'm sure I am being naive or worse, some would consider my ideas to be "work camps" and inhumane. But the CCC worked pretty well for my grandfather...

@235301...Now you are coming up with some viable ideas. You have to understand this is going to cost, but it might be worth it to break the cycle of poverty.

@The prosser-cuter...You want her to divulge the plan to block further Walker plans?

No Lyle, I want her to say how she would have plugged the budget deficit! I want to hear how she would have turned the economy around in this state and created jobs. She has no plan for the future, and she won't tell us what she would have done differently!

@The prosser-cuter...LOL, you crack me up. :-D

Number 9, number 9, number 9...

Keith b.....Ms darling has her own felonie accusations to worry about.

http://www.politiscoop.com/component/content/article/35-last-24h-news/439-darling-accused-of-criminal-felonies.html
Darling Accused of Criminal Felonies
Thursday, 04 August 2011 11:16 Paul I. Tascoupe
7

Darling Behind Bars

@Morningmist: The open records thing is a joke. If a request is made, it should be in person with a form. An e mail request is not going to get an immediate reply. This accusation will be proven disingenuous and not a violation. I believe it was just a Pashist trying to muddy the waters regarding Pasch's illegal PAC involvement.
But it just may work; the lefties seem to be buying her BS hook, line, and sinker.

I didn't know that spamming was allowed in these threads?