Yes, there were two Dems that somehow won by narrow margins, but the Dems will be spanked when we vote out two of them on Tuesday. Spread the word: Two for Tuesday!

The dem recalls were a joke. They barley got the signatures for the two of them. It will be a laugh watching the tea fanatic candidate make a fool of herself. You pathetic losers cost the republicans two seats in the state senate and are so delusional you think you are going to win a seat back. This I gotta see. You freaks crippled the markets and cost us. You will pay.

Now we need to recall Pasch before she tries to keep the assembly seat

Aw Bob- there ya go again, putting down democracy. Face it Bob- you can't handle democracy messing up your boring conservative routines. Get used to us Bob, we ain't going away. Yes Tate did overreact in the heat of seeing Nicholas do her hero thing again but he did retract it. I'll say we won a few battles yesterday but not the war. We're in for the long haul Bob. Get used to it and accept it as a way of life in Wisconsin as long as Walker is the fascist "leader" of our state. You elected him, now deal with the consequences. We certainly are, but alas you see this as a waste of time. Once you've come to grips with our messiness, I think we'll know.

The Republicans lost two seats. Get over it.

Could have just "redistributed" that wealth to its members.

Are you really that stupid? Most of the that was corporate money intended to round up sheep like you.

Yeah, I guess you are really that stupid.

lol "Corporate money". Is that what we are calling private money now? Do you feel bad for all the union dues that were wasted on this election? No matter how much you deny it, millions were from unions around the country.

Who cares about the gap. Get on the train or be left behind. It is about time we make some changes for the better. The liberals will never change. Look at Milwaukee, saving $25M - $36M and Barrett refuses to admit the Walker plan had anything t do with it even though the entire state knows otherwise. This is their mentality.

I don't believe things will slow down at all. Not till the people who really control the state has everything they want, with no fear of reprisal. They have had all the power since the midterms and have run amok with it. It's not over yet. Just set back and enjoy the ride you ask for. Hope it won't be too bumpy for you. Remember , we lost a lot of fed. money.

@235301...I don't think the governor will slow down because he sees that in the general election next year that the Democrats could take control of the legislature or at least one chamber. He will continue to push tort reform, privatization and deregulation. After next Tuesday he will know exactly how strong of control he will have. If the Senate remains 17 v 16, he may pull back a little, but he has no incentive to do so. The message was clear yesterday. the Republicans are still in control and will push to continue their reformation.

I'll happily admit I was wrong (see that, Lyle?). I was overwhelmed by the preponderance of wandering clipboardists, junk mail, robo-calls and morning rush to the polls by the folks who the Dems scared half to death with tales of solyent green and teachers selling apples on the street corners. I should have known that below the surface where the serious folk reside, things had remained relatively unchanged from last November.

@Bob McBride II...The sun rose this morning, the birds were singing and the media companies are counting their profits. We have to remember that no matter what; the left has lost this battle, not the war. Given enough time all things change. If the Walker agenda proves to be a disaster then the electorate will correct it.

And if it does and the electorate corrects it at a regular election cycle, then the lesson learned, I hope, is that the system works and extraordinary measures that cost everyone money, time, emotional wear and tear and distraction from the business of governance are not worth that cost.

And as others have said, Lyle, you have been pretty much the singular voice of reason on your side of the fence. Your loss, as painful as it must be, is through no fault of your efforts and can be squarely hung on those who infused the element of a 3 ring circus into the process at every chance. I think you knew that they were doing more harm than good by creating a significant backlash effect, and I do believe that's what we saw in action last night. Unfortunately for you, some of them will never learn. Fortunately for my side, they're your problem to contend with. Good luck.

@Bob McBride II...Thank you for your words. One of the things learned is time and treasure shouldn't be wasted. Our election cycles will work if we use them properly. The Serenity Prayer comes to mind: "Lord, let me change the things I cannot accept, accept the things I cannot change, and grant me the wisdom to know the difference." (Anonymous)

Get over it

Too bad 8th. You had a chance to be represented by a classy person who believed that we could work together. Bertie was anything thing but, whining about outside influences and bringing up the rib charge.

When is a rib not a rib? When it is a dog whistle.

Can we say "moral" victory? I know that has to be so exciting for the democrats.

I thought the pinnacle of the evening was when the head of the democratic party trotted out on live TV to call out Waukesha county for "withholding votes". Then the WTMJ reporter asked him a logical question, which basically shot down his supposition that there was funny business going on in Waukesha. His eyes started twitching and I thought for a second there his head was going to explode. It was lovely.

But the democrats came to their senses early this morning and said there will be no legal action. We can be thankful for that.

The REAL winner, "BIG PRINTING" - I had 11 "Pants on Fire" lie filled, Pasch mailers in my mailbox last week alone. Headline should have been: Despite Union-Bankrolled, Anti-Darling Flyer Deluge-Common Sense Wins

@Aldo Raine said "Too bad 8th. You had a chance to be represented by a classy person who believed that we could work together."

Right, lets all hold hands and sing "kumbaya." ""Can't we all just get along?"
THAT got us SO far under Gov. DU-Oyle. Now that we have gone from #4 at the bottom as a crappy state for business growth to now being in the TOP FIVE...thank goodness the common sense voters prevailed.

@Unions------How much did Koch Empire and other big Corps contribute to these Republicans?

And I suppose we should thank all the vandalism that went on at our beautiful State Capitol and say that the Dems created job? This entire matter maybe I could understand if we were dealing with the uneducated and the underdeveloped citizens of the State, but these people are suppose to be an upper class, educating our children. They showed no class, no education and were quite disgusting!

Pot calling the kettle black....there was enough street tactics to go around...in addition the reputation of a bright star (Mike Tate) in the Democratic Party soiled itself in the process.

Lets see, we are proud Republicans
The Dems stood up for what the out of state unions wanted
The Dems started the fake candidates ie the last election
Barbeque anyone? Don't forget your prize for voting.
We like the outcome

@SLR - "Gentlemen, you ought to be ashamed of yourselves. At least the Democrats stood up and passionately fought for something. They did what THEIR constituents wanted. "

That makes zero sense. Republicans "stood up and fought passionately for something as well. They did what THEIR constituents wanted", as well.

What we found out yesterday was that the will of the voters was to confirm their leaders, and reject your message. Too bad, so sad.

@SLR---Thank you for your wisdom......

@Craig---Please inform us what those "street tactics" were from the Dems?

I must of missed that part........And please I don't want to hear about how much $ from the unions. No different from big Corp money that was given to the Repubs...

Lyle, if you count blatant lying and allowing out of state (and probably out of country) corporate to pour in this district, then it was a job well done. As usual, Bertie was totally graceless in her victory speech last night. We cannot have any illusions that this Republican Robot will be working for the good of the district. Her focus is on the party and handful of mega rich not just here but outside the state, putting us up for sale.

I would love to follow the line of cooperation, but there is only one thing the right understands and that is to be beaten and made docile.

Maybe we don't deserve quality leadership.

In contrast to many comments, Mr. Ruble is gracious and measured.

@Aldo Raine...I too am disappointed, but we have to deal with the reality of the situation. Wisdom teaches us to pick our fights. This strategy didn't perform as well as we would have liked, but we have learned a great deal. We now know where the majority of people are at with regards to their perceptual reality. We must work to change that perception through education utilizing well reasoned arguments and facts. Passion and emotion is a motivator for change, not a strategy for change.

Lyle - You are certainly becoming a voice of reason! Are you moving a little closer to the middle? Aldo - get a grip. While I admire Sandy Pasch's ground game as one of the most organized and relentless as any I have ever seen, the fact remains that she was a very weak candidate, especially for the district she was trying to win. She had no message other than I am not a Republican. Her death knoll was the Citizens Action/Wisconsin Jobs Now/Ribs for vote debacle. She was close until that happenned. People don't like cheaters!

@The prosser-cuter...The center? Hell no, I'm just a pragmatist. I agree that Sandy's weakness in this race was she didn't truly have an alternative plan other than "I'm not a Republican." It was good experience for her to go through this, politically she will have matured a lot. If she has been bitten by the bug she will have an opportunity to run again next fall.

You're right. This is definitely something that needs to be looked into. The amount of resources wasted to essentially replay an election that occurred 9 months ago, because some couldn't wait an additional 15 for the regular election cycle to come around again is shameful.

This was a blatant program of shoving radical right values (maybe I'm miss-using the term) down our collective throats. This is exactly what recalls are for.

If you don't like it McBride and the rest of you toadies, tough crap. Get set for the next one as Walker leads this economy right down the crapped with the help of his buddies in Congress.

Settle down Keith and accept your defeat with some class for once. It's your side's absolutely foolish behavior that has caused the adults in the room to scrutinize the process. I guess we should thank you for that, but since it cost this State a collective arm and leg to do so, no thanks for you.

Aldo- This is exactly why most stated DO NOT allow these types of recalls. There needs to be some criminal act of breaking the law. These recalls were about emotion and agitating the will of the majority. GOB senators did their job. They did not run away. They won again. Holding the state hostage for another election cycle for doing your job?

I think Walker is smart enough to leave things as they are, even though IMO it should be changed. He has licked enough tears saving this state.

Aldo:

http://chiefexecutive.net/best-worst-states-for-business

Wisconsin had the largest year to year gain over all other states. I encourage you to read that article. There are some real gems of insight in there, specifically what is happening in Ill and CA. I am sure the liberals will dismiss the article as corporate propaganda. Unfortunately for the liberals it is not...it's just a whole bunch of good, common sense business principals working their way into winners and losers.

@free to speak...Leave the recall alone, it worked. That is something all parties learned. Even if you can gather enough signatures to force a recall election it doesn't mean that a recall is certain. I don't think we'll see it used again for quite some time. Personally I think we would be foolish to attempt a recall against the Governor, but we'll see.

@Aldo...You are 100% correct!

Shame on those fake D's........

While I understand your desire to limit recalls going forward (something I share with you), Democrats did pick up two seats, reducing the Republican majority to one. I think the Democrats would love nothing more than for us to walk away from next week's races and leave them with a one seat margin to overcome in the next regular election cycle.

Yes, there were two Dems that somehow won by narrow margins, but the Dems will be spanked when we vote out two of them on Tuesday. Spread the word: Two for Tuesday!

This was a state election, not national oO

Not sure, but S&P did state that they wanted more revenue and besides silly Craig anybody that is keeping up with Ryan's plan (staying away from Fox) knows that Ryan's plan costs more than the Affordable Health Care........

“Not only would it cover 32 million fewer people, and do nothing to reduce the overall growth of health care costs, it doesn’t even reduce the deficit by as much as the Affordable Care Act.”

“Over time Ryan’s vouchers will pay for less and less coverage. The CBO says that by 2030, the typical beneficiary would be expected to pay more than two-thirds of their medical costs.”

“Republicans attacked democrats for “gutting Medicare,” with $500 billion in cuts. Guess what? Ryan’s budget proposal includes those same cuts! When Ryan talks about repealing the Affordable Care Act in his budget, he only means repealing the spending and taxes (taxes which for the most part only affect the very wealthy or those with “Cadillac” insurance plans). He’s keeping the Medicare cuts the GOP ran against last fall.”

Medicare Costs More Under Ryan Plan
http://www.cepr.net/index.php/blogs/beat-the-press/medicare-costs-more-under-ryan-plan-and-the-iraq-war-costs-more-than-a-school-lunch

@Craig: Nice name :-)
If Paul's plan were adopted we would be in better fiscal shape for sure.

Couponcare: Paul Ryan’s proposal for changing Medicare

http://whatifpost.com/couponcare-paul-ryans-proposal-for-changing-medicare.htm

Craig, why are you mixing Medicare (those over 65) with ObamaCare (those under 65) and Medicaid (very low income people with no health insurance)?

I'd also like to ask -- do you expect to be young forever? In good health forever? Or at least continuously and lucratively employed until retirement age so that you'll be able to take up the slack between the Medicare vouchers and what you health insurance will actually cost you? I thought that at age 30, but it didn't work out.

Randy1949: Socialized medicine is socialized medicine- that is why I lump them all together.
Do I expect to live forever? No; in fact my health has been in decline. I have not been physically able to work for two years. I am in the process of verification of a deadly and crippling disease. I want medicare and medicade to be around for me when I need it. I hope if I qualify, I will be able to collect Social Security, so I DO care.
At this point I would be happy to have health care and not be required to pay for it- but it is not right for the rest of the country.
Channel 4 ran a story a few years back about the sore throat.
I don't listen to Rush.

I'm sorry to hear you're not in good health, Craig. And I hope you qualify for whatever you need, because without that 'socialized medicine' it will bankrupt you. Because, as you've said, you can't work. If the Ryan plan were in effect today, a $15K voucher wouldn't buy you the insurance coverage you need. Private insurance companies won't insure people who are actually sick -- or else they charge an arm and a leg for it.

@Randy1949: Understand that I know Ryan isn't offering up the best proposal possible, but it is a start. If there were more ideas out there- we would have more to chose from.
You are right about bankrupting me: my medical for two years exceeds $400,000. Thankfully I have health insurance, with high co pays and deductibles.
With a child starting at UW- Madison next month, I worry about footing the bill and seeing graduation day.
A check from Social Security and eligibility for Medicade would be a big help, so I don't want to see it implode and become nothing. I was reluctant to file at first, but I have paid into the system. It is supposed to be guaranteed and in a trust fund, but both parties have raided the fund more than one time.
I consider myself lucky I have managed this far- the average American would not have.
Something has to be done, someone has to have the answers. But I think the flack from the Ryan plan makes others afraid to present any ideas.
We all need to push both parties harder. If not for ourseves, we should for our kids and grandkids.

Real world examples are over your head. Lefty websites are not.

@Dee, he really likes to use that "ambulance for a sore throat" line. I think he got it from this, a British man who was imprisoned for six months for, you guessed it, calling for an ambulance (42 times!) for a sore throat. He probably heard the story from Rush. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/5778297/Pensioner-jailed-for-999-calls-over-sore-throat.html

I have seen families take their children to the hospital every time they have a cough or sneeze just because it is "free". Billy has a cough I need to go to the doctor. Billy comes back with overpriced cough sirup and a bill that the state pays for. When you have no responsibility to cost you go in for whatever whenever.

"I have seen families take their children to the hospital every time they have a cough or sneeze just because it is "free". Billy has a cough I need to go to the doctor. Billy comes back with overpriced cough sirup and a bill that the state pays for. When you have no responsibility to cost you go in for whatever whenever."

Are you saying that families with health insurance coverage don't behave the same way? If their employers are providing all or part of that coverage, we're all paying indirectly for it anyway through the costs of goods and services.

What I don't quite understand is when health insurance expanded to cover office visits, because it didn't back when I had health insurance. I guess that even the insurance companies realized that sometimes a stitch in time saves nine.

@Denise, It has become apparent to me Steve has no proof to back up anything he states and just continues to look foolish with his extreme (Fox news) opinions. I have discovered it's a waste of time responding to him any longer...

Thank you for the link:)

whatifpost.com? Lol

GOP holds state senate..."This is what democracy looks like boom shaka lacka lacka boom shaka lacka lacka."

A fifteen thousand dollar voucher might buy enough insurance to cover a healthy 65 year old at the current level and still save some money. But as the individual ages or develops health problems that won't be the case. Some elderly will have enough retirement money saved to pay the difference out of pocket but others won't.

@Randy, your right, but I would like to add how many 65 year olds do you know that have 0 health problems and then it declines as one ages as we know.

Check with me again in three years, Dee. It's zero now, but that could change.

@Carola, unfortunately several people choose to have the 24 hours so called news inform them of everything when it comes to Politics instead of taking their time to find out the accuracy of it all........

Nate---2 out of 6 in Red districts is nothing to be ashamed of.....Especially when you look at how close they were (excluding one). As an example, in one district that went to R, there wasn't a D in that district since the 1800's and this one was close.

Congrats to those voters who realize how much of a fraud these R's are and we will Re-call Walker.....Winning the War is what this is all about!

Yes, we have one of those on here already - me. I want this failed coup d'état to serve as a lesson to you liberals. Sensible people know better than you with your failed policies. You can't back dumptrucks into a problem and bury them in cash.

"Sensible people know better than you with your failed policies. You can't back dumptrucks into a problem and bury them in cash."

Interesting, Nate. You seem to think that burying businesses in cash is going to lure them back to the state and raise the boat for everyone. Yet that policy didn't work very well nationwide. The Bush tax cuts didn't translate into an explosion of new jobs here in the US.

@Randy, your predictable rebuttal offers another point I'll make. How many more companies would leave if not putting any carrot in front of them? At this moment, many CEO's are boasting huge sums of cash reserves but are too chicken to hire people because your Procrastinator in Chief would rather play golf than ensure us a recovery.

@Nate.........I thought if the top 2% continued to get those Bush tax cuts extended they were going to start hiring.........Whats the excuse now?

Low taxes on the wealthy create an incentive to take their profits out of their businesses. High taxes create an incentive to leave the profits in the company and create jobs to reduce the net (taxable) income while expanding the company for future, long term, benefits.

I was told by puppets on MSNBC that the two overthrows were expected, not exactly strongholds. Take what you can get though. Congratulations.

I wouldn't call Fond Du Lac and LaCrosse "strongholds" but it kept the thrill up the leg.

Wow, now La Crosse is a Republican stronghold? Make sure you don't have golf spikes on with all that spining.

Spin, Spin, Spin. That was your "financial alamo"

How much $ (our tax $) could have been saved if Walker did not invent this Voter ID law, which has no warrant based on past voter fraud? How much $ could have been saved if Walker would have met with the Senate and sat down like a responsible politician and worked out a budget instead of using the budget as an excuse to end collective bargaining?

Dave- don't forget the $500,000 Walker just allocated to defend his vengeful CB law. He is now paying lawyers $300 per hour to defend this law. How many teachers would that hire Dave!

Bewildered: your post reflects your insecurity.

Excellent opinion piece! http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/274204/spite-all-cash-unions-came-short-christian-schneider

How much $ did Koch Empire and big Corps contribute to these re-calls????? Why always just one sided........?

D, never said Repubs weren't spending too. Big diff is Repub backers invested successfully, unions bankrupt

@ Bewildered, You stated "never said Repubs weren't spending too. Big diff is Repub backers invested successfully, unions bankrupt"

What the heck does that mean?

Bewildered- what was it 3800 votes? I would say given the republican strongholds Sandy Pasch was up against, the campaign was just fine. You really can't compare the last senate race with this one. This was an extremely high profile race with much more at stake.

Paul, last election was also the Obama race. Can't get any higher profile than that. If this election was more important, how do you explain Darling's greater margin of victory? The only answer I can think of is that her union/recall message doesn't work with moderates in the Dem party and the center. By the way, Milwaukee turnout was very disappointing to the Pasch insiders.

Nope, official results darling 5,019 margin.

Hey Paul, Perhaps Sandy's biggest mistake was not starting the Bar-b-ques for votes earlier? Or perhaps not enough "pork" was served at said meals? Or perhaps she should have turned it up a bit more on her negative ads? Or perhaps she could have considered an actual plan of action??? Just wondering?

Bewildered: Darling had to be recalled. 30,000 people requested it. The Dems sent me in the absolute correction direction. Not sure what you mean by the ghost or playing spin the bottle. Am I going to stop what I'm doing? No Bewildered. Crushing defeat? Maybe from your position. But again, as the quotes stated above, an incredible amount of political benefits were garnered from these elections. I personally rang doorbells in Milwaukee neighborhoods that before the recall of Darling I would not even have considered driving though. This recall campaign developed a passion in myself to embrace the disenfranchised voters of poor neighborhoods. My fears have been conquered. Although we lost in the 8th we took major steps forward in connecting with these wonderful people on the devastating cuts made by Walker and his puppet Darling. So Bewildered, the loss was in reality a win in many ways.

" ugly stick".. Hey bucked, put up profile pic and let's judge you. Keep it above the belt. Come on man, at least try and act like a civil human being. You're true colors are shinning thru. Look at Lyle as a role model as a gracious loser with a solid perspective on what the left needs to do.

Cry more

Given your comments above Buckster, I have 1 question to ask. What did your parents do to you to warrant the above personal attack? Your despicable remarks point to great hatred and venom. That hatred will overtake you some day and poison you from the inside out. You evoke my pity.

@Paul Trotter...What makes you think that the extreme conservatives don't already understand Walker's agenda. For the most part they agree with him. The key to the future is those uncommitted to either the right or the left. As Walker and company continue to overreach, those are the people who will finally understand. It is our duty who oppose the direction of Walker's reformation need to educate the unaware. One of the problems we have is that we are not very good in the practices of being the opposing party. We need to control the topics for discussion.

54% Darling victory is a whole lot more than "just diehard conservatives", but keep putting your union spin on the election. It sure worked well leading up to last nite. Does the term " gracious loser" mean anything to you ( or are you more in the " sour grapes" camp?) By the way, in total last nite across the state, 53% of the voters didn't buy into the union message. If it failed big time this summer, why in the world would anyone think it will work in 2012, esp. with stories coming out everyday that the BRB and 2012 budget is working? But trust me, the Repubs would love for the left to "stay on the union backed talking points" ! Wanting to raise taxes, increase the debt and have everyone "share sacrifices" is such a winning message in today's economy. Pasch's campaign is going to become a textbook case on how to lose an election.

Mark Belling is losing listeners. The new measuring tool is showing that people in big numbers are not listening to this racist.

Yep- the only job creation caused and created by Walker.

No need to attack the President, Michael.

Why not, he's the worse ever.....at least Bush made decisions rather than ignore reality.

@Nate Reloaded...C'mon Nate your not dragging W out are you? I can understand your disappointment with the President. However, Walker is our governor and I accept him just as our president is our president. If we want we can change presidents a year from November. There's no need to keep ragging on about him. Take a page out of the Dems playbook, vilification of someone can really backfire and you lose in the end. I understand your passion but it's time for you to move on too.

Well said Lyle

Aw Michael- who you going to vote for? Bring it on!

@Nate....

Here's some facts about your Bush made some decisions...Oh and how he did!

Bush On Jobs: The Worst Track Record On Record
http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2009/01/09/bush-on-jobs-the-worst-track-record-on-record/

In the wake of the Bush tax cuts, and the Great Recession, tax revenue has fallen through the floor to near-historic lows. As a percentage of GDP, it's fallen 24 percent since 2001, and if you correct for inflation, the government is collecting nearly 20 percent less per person than it was a decade ago.

CHART OF THE DAY: ‘Out Of Control Spending’ Not Really Out Of Control At All
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/07/chart-of-the-day-out-of-control-spending-not-really-out-of-control-at-all.php?ref=fpa

@Lyle - You're ever the calm moderator on here, with your pleasantries for Alberta's victory and fair talk with those against you. I just hope you're not taking after the president. Such smoothness might let one perceive you as the devil.

@ Denise. Trying to go through the list of presidents in my 49 years on this earth. I can tell you unequivacally, Obama is the worst president in my lifetime. The guy is wishy washy and doesn't have a plan for anything!

@The prosser-cuter, That's super (and not simplified at all). But what does it have to do with this story?

Never think the DNC is bankrupt. The unions will just raise dues and pour more millions into Wi. Good money after bad.

Yes Nate Walker will be re-called.....The loving lying Governor:

All statements involving Scott Walker that were FALSE
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/scott-walker/statements/byruling/false/
"Under our (2011-’13) budget, the average (Wisconsin) property taxpayer will save $700."

“Says many public-employee unions falsely told their Wisconsin members his budget-repair bill sought 12 percent to 13 percent of their incomes for health insurance premiums.”

Two years ago we had "the largest structural deficit ever in Wisconsin."

"We’re broke. We don’t have any more money."

"The things I said (during the prank call by a blogger posing as GOP contributor David Koch) are the things I’ve said publicly all along" about the Wisconsin budget debate.

When it comes to protesters in Madison, "almost all" are now from outside of Wisconsin.

"I campaigned on (the proposals in the budget repair bill for Wisconsin) all throughout the election. Anybody who says they are shocked on this has been asleep for the past two years."

In Wisconsin, 98 percent of all small businesses will qualify for income-tax relief under my plan, freeing them to expand and create jobs

"I campaigned on (the proposals in the budget repair bill for Wisconsin) all throughout the election. Anybody who says they are shocked on this has been asleep for the past two years."

Nate- I'm just planning how I can put up my 3 x10 recall Walker banner so thousands of Brewer fans can see it.

Nate- dig a little deeper into the consequences of the recalls. Better put your MB for president bumper sticker on your car. What a joke the Repukes are putting up for presidential candidates.

Who, the President? I'm not even going to get into the irony of calling President Obama a "buffoon" after the eight years we had before . . . my point was simply that this is a story on WI recalls, not our President. So, how about that American democracy at work? It's all so exciting and memorable!

@Denise, mention of President Obama is applicable to this discussion. Much of what we've seen in the past few months is part of a political strategy to deliver Wisconsin to the GOP candidate in 2012.

Frankly, with his performance in the latest debt ceiling fiasco, the President is his own worst enemy. We might as well have a Republican in the White House, other than the fact that a GOP replacement would undoubtedly be much farther to the right -- dangerously so. I'll probably be voting for Obama in 2012 but with a clothespin on my nose.

Barack Obama is a good man and an intelligent man, but he lacks a political spine. He's another Carter.

@Bryant Divelbiss...I can understand you are opposed to unions, but claiming they are corrupt; that's going a bit far. If you don't want to be counted in the ranks of the extremists, then you need to dial it down. Your side won already.

@Lyle - Weac isn't corrupt? Please! Even you know better than that!

Oh boy- it's cap time for Rick.

@Rick Richardson...Who are you?

lolooollolooololol

Lyle Ruble - Devilcrat. Satanist. Crumb Bum.

@Bob McBride II...You called?

It needs to be in CAPITAL LETTERS....

DEVILCRAT - SATANIST - CRUMB BUM

...it would look good on his business cards too...

So you don't know this guy Lyle? People don't generally toss around a serious accusation like "crumb bum" without cause.

@Bob McBride II...The only thing I can think of is he might be one of my illegitimate children from my Haight Ashbury days.

One of them, Lyle? You did get around in your youth, didn't you?

@Rick, your kinda scary....Have you ever thought about anger management classes or maybe a couple of Xanax?

Lyle clearly oppressed him so badly that he can't afford a keyboard where the capslock turns off.

IT IS A WELL KNOWN FACT DEVILCRATS ARE ATHEISTS AND THAT MEANS IF YOU DONT BELIEVE IN GOD YOU BELIEVE IN SATAN

LYLE WORSHIPS SATAN AND THAT IS WHERE HE GETS HIS POWERS FROM

PEOPLE WAKE UP IT IS NOT JUST THE UNIONS AND THE ILLEGAL ALIANS TRYIG TO STEAL ARE ELECTIONS IT IS ALSO THE ANTICHRISTIANS LIKE LYLE

HE USES HIS SILVER TONGUE TO SWEETTA;LK YOU INTO COMPLACENCE AND THEN HE STRIKES AT YOUR PROPERTY TXSES AND VOTES

LYLE CANNOT BE TRUSTED GO DARLING GO WALKER AGENST THE SATANIC THREAT TO AMERICA SUCH AS LYLE WHO CHEATED ME FROM MY VOTES AND TAKXES

Lyle, King of the Crumb Bums, what are these powers you're hiding from us? And why did you not utilize them to assure a Pasch victory last night, hmmmm? You didn't stiff Satan when he came by to collect his due, did you?

I was trying to be the most hated on here and apparently Lyle is beating me.

@Bob McBride II...It was actually Satan's plan to keep Sandy from winning. It is to torment Democrats and urge them to sell their souls for the next election. Of course you know that Satan and his followers are not atheists, they know that G-d exists.

Hmmm...well, you know it is kind of odd...apparently nobody has seen Sandy around since her rather quick departure last night...apparently she left very abruptly for a "vacation"....and now "Rick Richardson" appears out of nowhere and seems rather upset with you. I'm having trouble pulling all the loose ends together here, but it's got to have something to do with this revelation that you're a crumb bum. I'm sure it will come to me at some point.

I'll leave you to un-confuse Rick here on the whole Satan-atheist issue while i try to sort this all out.

Lyle would have delivered for the Dark Lord, but he couldn't find a virgin to sacrifice. Modern times are hard.

Would you prefer President Obama cut some brush in Texas? Seriously, address his policies or something, but saying he's a clown who golfs does NOTHING to advance your point, if only because we remember the slacker we had before.

You did know that W. broke the record for most vacation days, right?
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/11/politics/uwire/main3927378.shtml

@Randy - Fair analysis, and that's what I'm trying to drive home to the hardcore left. Obama may have the intelligence, but not the initiative. He comes off as running away from the problems when he campaigned to take them head on. He touted himself as a Messiah.

Dee says, "One more thing, if you can't back up your comments/opinion with facts (links) than you don't need to respond."

Please, I need not entertain you with any facts. My posts are purely opinionated, although fairly accurate. Any links you might provide us would just divert us to liberal propaganda, so no thank you.

@Nate states: "Please, I need not entertain you with any facts. My posts are purely opinionated, although fairly accurate. Any links you might provide us would just divert us to liberal propaganda, so no thank you"

Well, if you tried opening up some of these links I have provided you might be surprised how much you may learn, such as links from "CBO", which you call liberal propaganda (wow). It’s unfortunate that we have so many like you who are spoon fed from the likes of Fox and Rush and they are so proud of you.

What's that saying, oh yes "Opinions are like Assh8les and everyone’s got one".

Damn good question, Dee! How do Republicans like Walker convince people to vote against their best interests? I understand that he lied during the campaign, but at this point, people know what he's all about (himself and his cronies) so why would anyone who isn't a crony support him now? Are people too stubborn to admit they were snowed?

I do partially blame Dems. They don't play dirty. Certainly, Dems knew about, say, the circumstances surrounding Walker's dismissal from Marquette, yet they didn't play it up (just like how California Dems knew about Schwarzenegger's affair and child). If it were a Dem who cheated in college, the GOP would have a blast with it!

@Denise Du Vernay...First never over estimate the intelligence of the electorate. We have a very strong populist movement in play. They are fairly well anti-intellectual and see the educated to be elites who lack any common sense. For many they see someone like the governor as one of them. His dropping out of college scores very low on their radar. You look out into rural Wisconsin and the college degree is probably not their most important concern.

For many of the populists, their only contact with the educated is their local educators. Teachers and public employees have been scape goated to the point where they are openly derided and disrespected. The consistent message is that school teachers have been sucking on the collective teat and draining the communities dry by their high salaries and unrealistic benefit packages. You have to remember that in most communities, education is the single largest expenditure. To answer the question of why people would vote against their own self interest; it's simple, they have been inundated with the populist message and the opposition has not struck the chord with them to get them to listen to our message. We have to keep things simple.

Denise:

What exactly are the 'circumstances' that you refer to regarding Walker's alleged 'dismissal' from Marquette? Ever consider that the reason the Dems don't bring it up is that it really isn't true?

Which of my 'best interests' am I actually voting against when I support Scott Walker? I don't want to have to pay more taxes to fund high speed rail that nobody is going to use. I like the idea of a balanced budget that doesn't turn cuts at the state level into tax increases at the local level. Despite the overdramatic claims to the contrary, Walker's "draconian" budget cuts aren't doubling our class sizes and laying off bunches of teachers. In addition, I think that Ryan's plan is a great starting point for the much needed reform of Medicare.

Maybe we on the right just prefer politicians that don't distort the facts...

@CowDung...Walker's departure from Marquette has always been a mystery. He hasn't talked openly about it and the school's administration hasn't talked either. So we're left with uncertainty.

By not voting for Walker you would be voting against your own self-interest. You are a young professional who enjoys an upper middle class lifestyle. Most of the 8th State Senate District are very much like your profile; middle to higher income status, better educated, and socially insulated from the problems of the lower classes. The advent of the Walker Administration promises you and others in your circumstances, the end of continuing tax increases. This is all a plus for you. You have clearly voted your pocket book and still remain insulated from the negative consequences his policies will create.

Yes, Walker's departure from Marquette is a mystery--which means that it would be a clear distortion of fact to make the claim that he was dismissed for cheating.

I guess I really don't see how Walker's policies are so terrible for anyone as compared to the alternative. Walker cut the Medicare growth budget by $500 million, Doyle cut it by $600 million--not much difference aside from the volume of the complainers.

While vouchers aren't perfect, I see them as better than blindly throwing more money at the failing public school systems in the state.

The self proclaimed 'progressives' in the Democratic party really don't seem to be willing to try anything new and instead declare class warfare against everyone that isn't poor or a union member. Perhaps I am isolated, but the way I see it, only one party is actually taking real steps toward addressing the problems of our society...

@CowDung...Just a small correction, it is medicaid and not medicare. We have an issue with medicaid, in as much, as Walker and the legislature has set it up in such a way that the Dennis G. Smith, the Secretary of the Wisconsin Health Services, can at any time change the program as he sees fit, without legislative approval.

As far as voucher and charter schools, I can't support that for a number of reasons.
1) They are not educating children any better than MPS (DPI report on standardized tests)
2) They don't have to meet the same teacher standards that public schools do
3) They also have demonstrated a vulnerability to scams and ripoffs
4) They don't take special needs students
5) The whole idea was originated and sponsored social right extremists who object to secular educations. They also object to any teaching of evolutionary theory as well as the teaching of US History that does not affirm the divine nature of the nations origin. The leading proponent is Betsy DeVoss who is married to Richard DeVoss the heir of the Amway fortune.

I agree that the progressives haven't come up with anything to remedy the situation. It is not a question of money, it is the issue of creative programing.

As I said, the voucher system isn't perfect, but it's an attempt to try something different.

I won't argue with your point #1 aside from pointing out that there are more benefits to vouchers than academics--namely diversity.

Point #2 doesn't matter to me. Having different teacher standards doesn't translate to an inferior education. Studies have shown that Master's degrees in education don't translate into any improvement in student performance.

Point #3, any program is subject to scams and ripoffs. Prosecute those caught cheating the system.

Point #4, schools are free to accept anyone they want--including special needs kids. Perhaps there might be an opportunity to start a school for special needs kids if voucher money were available to pay the cost.

Point #5, parents are free to choose the type of school they feel gives their child the best education. If they object to secular schools, they can choose religious. If they object to religious, they can choose secular. Even within those groups, they can choose the school that they feel is best for them.

Again, I feel that the best way to improve our education system is to put into place ideas and methods that are different, perhaps even progressive. With the current climate of the teacher unions, I really don't see that happening with anyone except the republicans.

...and yes, you are correct--it should be Medicaid not Medicare.

@CowDung...Let me address a couple of issues from your response. I don't want my tax dollars going to parochial schools. To me this violates separation of church and state. Also, concerning teacher qualifications; we are not talking about master degrees but people regulated by the state with state teaching licenses.
There are already voucher schools that specialize in students with special needs, but the children have to be transported to take advantage of such facilities. Also, MPS is mandated by law to accept these students while charter and voucher schools are not.

I don't see vouchers for religious schools to be a violation of church and state. The free choice of the parent to select a school means that the state is not attempting to force a religion onto anyone or establishing a state religion.

As far as teacher licensing goes, again it doesn't really matter. If the actual quality of the teaching is substandard, private schools will lose students. It is in the school's best interest to have qualified and talented teachers (with or without license or certifications). Having a teaching license doesn't automatically make a person a better teacher than a person without a license.

Yes, MPS is mandated to accept all students and voucher schools are not. The funding levels of MPS are much higher than the voucher amounts to account for that. Perhaps that would be an opportunity for MPS to better serve special needs kids while other students voucher out to other schools. I don't think that it is a large enough issue to condemn the whole program because it fails to serve a small minority of the students.

@CowDung...Religious institutions do not pay taxes, therefore the government does not support religious institutions. When the government starts funding religious institutions then it has every right to intrude into that institution. Therefore, if religious schools receive government funding, then I or government representatives have the right to come in and see how the money is spent. It used to be that government institutions did not want government interference, therefore they were very careful to stay clear of government subsidies.

It sounds as if you are not overly concerned how the taxpayer's money is spent or the quality of the instruction these children receive. Your statement is that it's not any worse than MPS so what's it hurt. No independent oversight; this last year was the first year they had to take the DPI exams. I think that you are again motivated by the pocket book. The cost of a voucher student is six grand, about half what an MPS student costs. Therefore, we'll push vouchers because it won't be any worse than MPS and we'll save on that money. Now we have a situation that all voucher or charter schools don't have to perform because their standard is a failing school system. Do you see anything wrong with this picture? It saves money but it doesn't create change. Please stop thinking with the attitude we can't change things, therefore let's save the money.

Non profit organizations also do not pay taxes. That doesn't mean that they cannot accept or aren't eligible for government funds. There is no difference between secular non-profits and religious non-profits.

The 'independent oversight' comes from the parents who enroll their kids at the school--parents aren't going to keep their kids in private schools that are crappy. The free enterprise system weeds out the underperforming schools, and rewards the best performers. Public schools are different--they are the default option for educating children, so a higher standard of oversight is required.

I don't think that we are actually saving money with the voucher system. There is money budgeted to cover the cost of the vouchers above and beyond what is budgeted for the school district. From a cost standpoint, it would be cheaper to eliminate the voucher program.

Lyle, while you are right about religious institutions not paying taxes, many do pay municipalities a fee in lieu of taxes (which is tied into its property value and contains an inflation kicker). By so doing, they often receive municipal services (ie garbage pick up) in return. One example is the Shul in Bayside.

Get a chance? He started dropping bombs as soon as he took office. I believed I've learned enough already. Thanks but no thanks jbw.

No, the races were pretty close both times, Darling's victory in a rich bedroom community district notwithstanding. What I see is an indication that Walker & Co. don't have quite the mandate they insist they have. They should consider listening to their constituents and representing the entire citizenry of the state -- not just those who are well off enough to survive cuts in public services.

I don't see how two people losing their jobs has anything to do with "siding with Walker." It just kind of sounds like two people lost their jobs.

With State revenue cut to local government and the property tax levies frozen, something has to give. Elmbrook is closing some schools, the trash doesn't get collected quite as efficiently.Remember what happened in California after prop 13?We'll have to see how bad it gets.

@Randy - Don't let the facts get in the way. Elmbrook may close some schools because of decreasing enrollment, excess capacity, and five years of deficits. Not because of anything Walker or BRB has done. http://brookfield-wi.patch.com/articles/elmbrook-could-close-two-elementary-schools-analysis-shows

Elmbrook isn't my school district anyway (I wish it were, because Elmbrook's levy is much less than for Waukesha) and it's really no skin off me if class sizes get bigger. But it may be an issue for people with school age kids who don't do so well in that environment -- those who can't afford to send them to private school.

How big are class sizes going to actually get? If they currently have excess capacity, class size might not increase at all--they are just getting rid of the empty/unused classrooms...

@Michael Pyter...Mayor Barrett wanted for the city to take over the schools, but that was rejected. Maybe it's time for the state to take over.

Don't agree Lyle. I'm all about local control. MPS needs to fix it's only probs and the MPS teachers union needs to get it's head out of the sand and work with the school board, not reject the BRB and sacrifice it's owns ranks. By the way, talk of state controlling MPS was under the Doyle era, so keep in mind who "rejected" the state takeover. Can't blame Walker for this one, sorry.

Barrett taking over MPS probably would shake things up a bit. Nothing else seems to be working, if Barret is willing to take the risk and the responsibility, I'm sure that it wouldn't be the worst of disasters and might actually turn the trend around and make MPS better...

@Bewildered...Theoretically I agree in local school control, but they have had decades to do it and haven't. It's not all unions either, it's a chronically dysfunctional system. I'm not blaming Walker for the situation and I would probably support him in a state take over and bust the district up into six smaller districts, getting rid of an administration that is too top heavy and bloated. Six smaller districts could be better managed and more responsive to the parents in the individual districts. Look at the North Shore communities, they are smaller districts and a lot less problems.

Believe it or not, Lyle, I don't disagree with you. Until the game changes, results will be the same. While I'm not sure I want to open pandora's box and let Madison control our schools, it sure ain't working with the current approach in MPS. We just have to be careful what we wish for.

Someone needs to tell big al that Medicare is a federal program and state senators have no say in it. But then, the truth would ruin his whole point that we are all greedy, heartless fools.

I think you meant $500 million in Medicaid cuts, but yeah. This is where their priorities lie. Tax breaks for business, while taking money away from the working poor who needed these programs to get by.

Guess what, Medicaid is also a federal program, not a state one. Keep correcting big al to he ( or you) gets it right !

@Bewildered...Randy1949 and you are both correct. Medicaid funds are federal block grant monies. The state receives the block grant and then administers it through their own designed program - Badger Care. The Feds provide so much and the state provides the rest.

Thanks for clearing that up. Medicare Part D is expensive only because the Feds cannot negotiate a volume discount!

Al- sometimes the legacy wingnuts just don't know any better. They vote like their daddy did or husband and really don't know any better. Darling changed her tune on Senior Care after a great deal of backlash. She was set to sign it but backtracked. Her hero worship comments about Ryan could have been used more effectively. She's a rich witch that has no empathy for the poor or seniors. Where are the jobs Berta?

Interesting Dee, you don't require any links to back up those opinions.

@Nat, This coming from somebody who has only opinions with NO facts to back up anything you say/type?.........It must be embarrassing to be you.

BTW, I stated above "I am guessing", which obviously you now have a problem with comprehension....Oh, never mind not worth replying to you moving forward.....Waste of my time!

@Dee - Are you a lawyer, or do you like to spin and make up conditions to suit your argument. Such double standards, yet what more would I expect. We'll leave it at this: We'll shoot out our opinions, take them with a grain of salt, and accept that we'll never convince each other of our beliefs? Good for you?

@Dee: There is a lot of fools, greedy high income residents living everywhere- including your neighborhood.
Partisanship is not related to greed and finances. Al Gore would be right of Rush if that were true.
This latest debate just widened the divide because of emotion.
We can watch the news and see what happens with mob mentality and overboiled minds.
Lyle has been the only one I have noticed to step back and take a breath. It is obvioius he still holds strong to his beliefs, but he knows where and when to pick his battles.
He stepped forward and was graceful and decent, and was attacked for being the better man.
The next election cycle we can have this battle again, but now it is time to move on. We need to send that message to Madison too.

I found her at midnight jumping out of a wagon that appeared to be a pumpkin. She was missing one glass sipper though,

Slipper, sorry

Bewildered - have some respect for Sandy and her family. What you just said was very low. Go have a beer.

Sounds good Craig. I think I'll go disappear like Sandy for a while. Don't you all protest at once.

Walker is he root of all this evil. Could he be the Antichrist?

Nate can't leave graciously. He has to put someone down. Really classy Nate.

Well said Lyle. As I said, I'm going on vacation. There's always time for hating later.

More evidence that WEAC needed to be weakened. http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_700b882e-c459-11e0-9896-001cc4c03286.html

@Bewildered...I think the previous 7 months should have taught us all that moving to the lowest common denominator is not only disruptive to our communities but does little to promote change. When it comes to our committment to education of our children I want to promote thinking outside the box. I want to take a hard look at busting up MPS into six districts, maybe a ten year state take over of MPS or even manditory boarding schools for MPS and possible Racine Unified. As a former business owner I depend on an educated workforce. I think, our ideological differences are preventing us from doing the right thing for both current and future generations.

The mandatory boarding schools is an interesting idea, Lyle. I think that would be a great way to provide the safe and stable environment that many urban children are lacking.

I wonder how well received it would be by the parents though. Unfortunately, it sounds a bit like the program they used to have where they took Indian children away from their families in order to "properly" raise and educate them. The program is not viewed favorably by many Native people...

@CowDung...I am well aware of the mistakes of the Indian Boarding Schools. What I think would work is to have the children stay in the boarding school throughout the week and go home on the weekends. I would also suggest that school uniforms would be mandatory. It might also be that they would not enter the boarding school until the 4th grade and K-3 would remain as it is. Just trying to think outside the box.

I'm not sure boarding school would work, Lyle. I firmly believe that intelligence, intellectual curiosity, and that quality known as 'conscience' are laid down in the first few years of life. It would be very hard to instill them at age eight or older.

In addition, I would react very badly to any government taking my children to live away from me 'for their own good' and I daresay that parents of the City of Milwaukee are no different.

Of course, my son got the balance of his education at home. I had to correct his first double negative after he learned it in school.

Don't put down those bongo drums just yet!

..and on that 'note', did everyone see the bongo beating bills now tally now more than $8 million dollars....and to think that the $7 million dollar estimate was roundly 'beat' upon for being too high!!

Saw that. I'm sure we'll be hearing that it's Walker's fault for calling in "unnecessary" security.

He promised jobs and a balanced budget. What's not to like about that? He just wasn't completely candid about how he meant to accomplish it.

About the abuse of power -- I didn't live in Milwaukee County, and while I heard rumblings, I didn't know the full story. I doubt the rest of the state did either. Did Walker carry Milwaukee County in the 2010 election?

@Randy1949...He did not carry Milwaukee County. Those of us who live in Milwaukee County saw Scott Walker as an inept chief executive and an extreme ideologue. If you look at his record, he continually attempted to cut services, he created a huge problem with Milwaukee Mental Health, and did practically nothing to attract business into the county. The blame for not getting his record out rests entirely with the Democratic Party. I don't think they took him seriously and did not drive home the message on how destructive he had been to Milwaukee County. Of course, hindsight is 20/20.

I can't believe Tom Ament was, for a moment, seriously contemplating attempting to regain the position after Walker moved on to Governor. If anyone is responsible for "DESTROYING" Milwaukee County, it's that clown and his cronies. We're still paying for his "mistakes" and will be for years to come.

Scott Walker for Postmaster General?

I don't think they'll want to talk about that, Jay.

The Shul - Bayside is located in the building that formerly housed George Pandl's;recently moved from a storefront space at Audubon Court.

Wrong Pandls. Shul in closed Pandls of Bayside. I'm sure George would like to let everyone know Gearge Pandls in the Bay is alive and healthy (not to mention serving great food!)

@Bewildered... Jack Pandl's is in Whitefish Bay; Maybe Pandl's - Bayside dropped the 'George' a few years back; I sure miss the Sunday Brunch. Ok, so I still call it Brown Port(River Point) & Blue Port(Audubon).

I humbly stand corrected